Blues Draft Party - Someone Pass The Shit Sandwich!

Good site, but are you kidding me? This draft was unbelievable for us. In the months leading up to this draft, I have not heard one knock on Eller, he is going to be a future 1st line playmaker. Only reason he fell so far was because he was from Denmark and played in Sweden. I was a little surprised about Cole, but getting Perron, who has as much offensive upside as anyone was a steal; outside of Kane, best stickhandler in the draft. And our 2 second round picks? Both put up the goals and are known for being “finishers” and we know how much we need goalscorers. I knew Lester’s would be a joke because they were all their for a popularity contest, not an NHL draft. There is a reason why they are sitting there drinking beers and the Blues organization was in Columbus calling names. I wouldn’t have minded swinging for the fences with Cherepanov but when you consider hockeys mental aspects that he seems to have trouble dealing with, and the fact that the RSL teams can pay him as much as they want, we could have gotten outbid for our own draft pick.

Waaaahhhhhhhhhh.

You’re pissed off because a bunch of Blues fans got together to watch the draft and it was too crowded for you. What a cry baby.

Next time maybe we should have it at the Edwards Jones Dome so you can have some space.

BTW, there’s a reason why you’re not an NHL scout.

Find something else to bitch about.

the players? ok. I’ve thought the blues have done somewhat better than their orverall histiory recently. BUT trading up to THEN go “off the board” with cole. a d-man? eller wasnt go to be there 5 picks later?

there is no reason to think the blues couldnt have drafter ellerby, ellers, and perron.

or sutter/countrau/ name it/ ellers and perron..

i’d give the blues props in 3-4 years (when it is due) if those 5 top studs available at 9 were not signifivcantly better than the swede.

the blues deserve no props to trade up AND go off the board for their second pick. EVEN if he makes somehting of himself

and why in a year the entire league has figures out to dump euros (and this is, at its heart, a result of signing rule changes) did the blues send their top euro scout out to the podium to pick more than the average # of euros? do we HAVE american scouting?

I’ve talked to people who were in Columbus for the draft, and apparently, the minute we called Cole’s name, another teams table looked pretty pissed. So if he was the guy we targeted and believe in, why not take a shot, it only cost a third rounder, and we had already picked up another second this year and a third next year for our #9 overall. Cole is seen as a very solid, steady defensemen, and most think he has only scratched the surface of his abilities. Only recently had he joined the US NDTP full time and has improved greatly since then. Ellerby has all the tools to be great, but as a defensemen the last thing I want to see associated with him is questionable hockey sense, and from everything I have read and seen, that is the biggest knock on him. And no, Eller would not be there 5 picks later, in fact, when we traded down I was afraid we would miss out on him. I thought we would take him with the 9th overall. And overall history recently? The last few years we have taken our organization from one of the worst prospect pools, to the one of the top 3 or 5. As far as our other options…Sutter is a career third liner, maybe 2nd if he can develop his offensive game, but he really doesn’t have much offensive upside. He will be a solid player, but with our first pick, I want someone who has the talent and work ethic to be a gamechanger. Don’t know who Countrau is. I would have liked Oscar Moller over Palushaj in the second round possibly, but both have talent. Like I said, I wouldn’t have minded Cherepanov, but I want someone with character and work ethic to go along with that talent, and Lars, the son of a coach, fits the bill. There is a reason 16 teams passed on Cherepanov and 19 on Esposito. This wasn’t one “crazy” scout who had a vendetta. It was a consensus that these players were not worth the chance. Who knows, maybe everyone is wrong, but at the time, I believe the Blues acted in the best interest in the future of the organization and made the best decisions with the present information. Any questions about Jarmo’s ability to draft should be directed to his work with the Senators as director of Player Personnel from 99-02 and with the blues from then on. Do we have American scouting? Cole, Perron, Palushaj, Sonne, Fairchild (Cole’s D partner), Erstad, Peluso, Nill. Is that enough North Americans for you? Eller and Hjalmarsson were the only two Euros.

couture, sorry.

 i’m on record elsewhere of liking the more recent pleau drafts, so some of this you may be preaching to the choir on, but 5 d-men went in the slots between the blues original first two picks. cole was not mock drafted that high. things do change. but when the canadian tv coverage has the following immediate reaction to 18th pick (and i quote) [page shuffle, more page shuffles, murming about finding this guy, almost unintelligable, “there he is” and then “well a little off the board but stll looks like a solid defensive prospect” ya know someone has been faked out of his jockies. I’ve no reason to believe it wasnt pleau :) and dont even bother looking for Cole on central scoutings final report in a first round draft locartion. don’t look for him an any of the major 5 pooled scouting reports.

ultimately, consider this:

a) europeans are rightly falling out of style, accross the board, as draftable nhlers. yet the blues ignored this trend. Not that suprising, their head scout is known as a great euro scout. hmmm.

b) the legal tender of nhl deadline deals, and the increasing currency of any nhl deal is prospects and picks. there is a solid chance two of these guys (and maybe three) will be dealt for parts

   b1) prospect forwards have historically held a better trade value than prospect d-men

  b2) a “by the book” pick in which all 30 teams have a player listed as a first round candidate can only help maintain value.

and while the ndtp stock has risen in the draftable arena, the long term success of it has yet to be known, get a bust or two out of the ndtp and you might find cole’s trade value fall as well.

again we can’t really tell how well the scouts did, we can only comment about the value of the overall pick vs the expected overall return of the guy we picked. I know many blues fans would have come away fromt eh first round with at least two different picks than the blues did. of course none of us are paid to pick. however all of us pay the blues to pick something watchable…

Oh, boy…

Yes, the GT Prospect Department was indeed in its element Friday night. There are only three places we’d have rather been… actually in Nationwide Arena at the draft itself; watching at the opulent GT World HQ whilst enjoying a cold beverage and the company of my fellow GT’ers; or snuggled between Shakira and Jennifer Love Hewett beneath the stars on a Caribbean island.

Since none of those scenarios played out for us Friday night, we were content to shoehorn ourselves into a way-too-small venue to watch our beloved Blues pick up some important pieces of the future, and get iconic ex-Blue Scott Mellanby’s signature on the Vintage 1967 home white sweater.

Despite the disparaging comments made above by my fellow GT’ers, I think the Blues did pretty darn well for themselves at this draft. I’ll be writing up a full-blown draft review in the days to come, but let me just say this right here and now… when it was announced that the Blues had traded the #9 for the #13 and other picks, I started telling everyone in earshot at Lester’s that Lars Eller was going to be the Blues’ pick. No one believed it then, but…

And as for Childhood Trauma’s comments above:

“…when the canadian tv coverage has the following immediate reaction to 18th pick (and i quote) [page shuffle, more page shuffles, murming about finding this guy, almost unintelligable, “there he is” and then “well a little off the board but stll looks like a solid defensive prospect”] ya know someone has been faked out of his jockies. I’ve no reason to believe it wasnt pleau…”

(insert “rolling eyes” emoticon)

“…and dont even bother looking for Cole on central scoutings final report in a first round draft locartion. don’t look for him an any of the major 5 pooled scouting reports.”

(again, insert “rolling eyes” emoticon)

If you didn’t find Ian Cole on “any of the major 5 pooled scouting reports,” then you must not have looked too hard, CT.

Central Scouting ranked him 81st in North America; apparently, his four-goal, five-point, plus-four, 6 PIM performance in seven games at the World U-18 Championships, which other scouting services made note of, didn’t impress the CSS guys too awful much.

International Scouting Services had Cole 57th overall in their Final Report, and called him “one of the most improved players since the start of the season.”

McKeens had Cole ranked 26th overal in their final Draft Guide, also noting that he had made great improvement in his game since the start of the 2006-07 season.

No, the Hockey News didn’t have him in their top 100, and I neither know nor care where Red Line Report ranked him, as RLR does not seem to like me very much…

Anyway, Mrs. GT Prospect Department s now home from work, and wants my attention, so we will work on a more detailed draft review tomorrow when Mrs. GTPD is at her other job…

I’m not sure I actually understand what your point is in the end Childhood Trauma, but as far as the trade value point is concerned, this is the new NHL with a salary cap. The way teams win is through developing their own talent consistently and I think JD has made a committment to this philosophy. He has constantly been trying to gain draft picks to see if he can throw enough things at the wall, maybe some will stick (so far it seems to be working very well). I doubt he would so readily throw them away in a deadline deal when we are a couple years from making a serious cup run. In fact I have seen just the opposite at the last two deadlines. You don’t draft for trade value, you draft for organizational value. And I, for one, want the best talent and value for our organization, not someone elses. Also I don’t get the Europeans falling out of style point. Some GM’s (IE Lowe and Burke) don’t like them, and the Blues only drafted two, so again, I don’t see what your getting at. I think it is actually a coup for us, that our scouts don’t have a fear of “ethnics” so we can pick up the next Forsberg, or Hossa, or Kopitar. If anything, we are drafting the BPA while others are drafting BPA in North America. In addition, I don’t get this point, “prospect forwards have historically held a better trade value than prospect d-men” and I don’t believe it really to tell you the truth. It all depends on a team’s needs and the talent and ability of the player.

So can any of these picks fight?

"Answer Man Says:
June 25th, 2007 at 7:51 am

So can any of these picks fight?"

Peluso absolutely can… JD even noted that “he’s a guy who can throw.”

i didnt say i couldnt find them, i said they were in locations suggesting their draft value was 2nd round. all 5 of them. yea tv coverage guys are tv guys, but 5 reports. canadian hockey well prepared anaylists (they didnt have problem finding any other first round pick :) ) means pleau is right any everyone else is wrong? worse yet, i am to think pleau is right about a NORTH AMERICAN? dude you taking bets???

as for the trade value. i completerly disagree. this is the new nhl, the way to win is to get an above average team, have a decent season, then at the trade deadline send your top picks and prospects to rent the pieces to win it all. look at the LAST trade deadline! this is the new nhl. look at this offseason, picks and prospects for signing rights. look at last offseason, picks and prospects for CAP ROOM (in a trade the nhl should never allow but this is buttman era hockey)

if the currency of the nhl is picks and prospect, you pick a currency that is well understood and backed by precious metals. you pick the offensive forward who is ranked a mid first rounder, whom can be a multiple team bust and still often get a good trade return as yet one more team will take a shot on him (daigle anyway? anyone?) you want the d-man counter example? look at what wade redden was passed around for before become solid.

so let me roll some FUCKING EYES

81st overall by cs final report on north american skaters is POSSIBLY third round, more likely 4th round

57th? barely second round. maybe. ecxpected 3rd

26th? late first?

you got a mock draft or any report having cole going middle first round?

rolling eyes

didnt think so.

when a team jumps the gun on a player that might be rising a bit, is a d-man, then historically will develope slow, etc, are they going to be able to trade him for a first rounder if they need to?

nooooope.

they do that to a falling offensive threat, they going to me able to trade him for a first rounder?

yeeeeeeep.

roll that and smoke it

and am, someone better be able to fight, they wont be doing anything else for the blues :)

matt i DID the forward vs d-man thing before, in another arena, i dont have that post, nor the time to re-do the work to generate the information (finding highly touted top 15 forward busts/slow deveolping vs d-men of the same catagory— following their trade histories and then comparing the result in bulk).

while, obviously, there are exceptions were a specific forward fell rapidly in value, while a d-man rose, this is not a generality i am making up. your lack of faith in me is certainly understandable, but i challange you to look into it before discounting it. you really shouldnt have to do the grunt work, pulling just a few examples of either catagory and following their trade history is likely to convince you that, for WHATEVER reason, offensive forawards ranked and drafted in the top half of a draft trade better than their defensive counterpoints.

Thats fine, I understand you didn’t like the Cole pick, I was suprised by it too, but it doesn’t mean we had a shitty draft. The fact that we picked up Eller, Perron and Hjalmarsson in our first 4 picks was brilliant either way considering Eller was predicted to go in the teens(only because of Euro and not much exposure) and Perron in the 20s(only because he was an overager) and Hjalmarsson was to go late first early second. Like I said though, I would rather have faith in Jarmo and JD than in most scouting departments around the league. Ill just take your word for the forward vs. defensement thing overall, but it is dependent on so many factors (age,upside,development,etc.) that it is definitely not a “truth.” That’s great that currency is picks and prospects, but ideally, every team wants to keep their prospects and have them pan out, nobody drafts players just to trade them. You build from within and add ufas when needed. How do you think you get an above average team? You draft well. If you have to trade them at the deadline for a cup run thats fine, but I can guarantee you not one GM in the league drafts someone based on perceived trade value.
BTW I think your caps lock is stuck. :P

Thats fine, I understand you didn’t like the Cole pick, I was suprised by it too, but it doesn’t mean we had a shitty draft. The fact that we picked up Eller, Perron and Hjalmarsson in our first 4 picks was brilliant either way considering Eller was predicted to go in the teens(only because of Euro and not much exposure) and Perron in the 20s(only because he was an overager) and Hjalmarsson was to go late first early second. Like I said though, I would rather have faith in Jarmo and JD than in most scouting departments around the league. Ill just take your word for the forward vs. defensemen thing overall, but it is dependent on so many factors (age,upside,development,etc.) that it is definitely not a “truth.” That’s great that currency is picks and prospects, but ideally, every team wants to keep their prospects and have them pan out, nobody drafts players just to trade them. You build from within and add ufas when needed. How do you think you get an above average team? You draft well. If you have to trade them at the deadline for a cup run thats fine, but I can guarantee you not one GM in the league drafts someone based on perceived trade value.
BTW I think your caps lock is stuck. :P

In response to the thought posted by Sean Gallager, I’m not sure if he was being sarcastic so I’ll just assume that he was. Kekalainen was the top scout for Ottawa for 3 years. His highest 3 picks in that time were Martin Havlat, Anton Volchenkov, and Jason Spezza. In addition to those picks he also drafted Chris Kelly, Anton Vermette, Ray Emery, and Tim Gleason. Besides Spezza, none of those players were drafted higher that 21st overall. Also in that time he drafted Greg Zanon and Brooks Laich who are competent full time NHL players both picked between 150-200. Not bad to routinely pull nhl talent out of the 5th and 6th rounds. So to sum it up- Havlat, Volchenkov, Spezza, Kelly, Emery, Vermette, Gleason, Zanon and Laich. I’d say that turned out pretty well for Ottawa.

Childhood Trauma wrote"

"81st overall by cs final report on north american skaters is POSSIBLY third round, more likely 4th round

57th? barely second round. maybe. ecxpected 3rd

26th? late first?

you got a mock draft or any report having cole going middle first round?

rolling eyes

didnt think so.

when a team jumps the gun on a player that might be rising a bit, is a d-man, then historically will develope slow, etc, are they going to be able to trade him for a first rounder if they need to?"

==

Just more Pleau-bashing on your part. I’ve come to expect nothing less.

1. Do you REALLY need me to explain to you that Jarmo Kekalainen is in charge of the scouting and drafting — not Larry Pleau?

2. Do you REALLY need me to explain to you that Kekalainen has a proven track record of success, and that his methods and criteria for selecting players are proven to be successful in identifying guys who develop into first-class NHL players?

3. Do you REALLY need me to explain to you that Kekalainen’s methods and criteria have absolutely nothing to do with where Central Scouting, McKeens, ISS, or any-freakin’-body else has a player ranked?

4. Do you REALLY need me to explain to you that no one — absolutely NO ONE — drafts a player with an idea of what he MIGHT be able to trade that player for in the future? Where on earth did you come up with such a half-bakede concept, anyway?

Look, I know you want to disparage Pleau (who has nothing to do with this process other than being the guy to negitiate with the agents AFTER the players are picked) and be the “hip,” controversial mystery man who won’t reveal his real name.

That’s all fine and dandy.

But do yourself a favor and don’t try to argue drafting or prospects with me. Stick to what you know — whatever that is — and I’ll stick to what I know, which is prospects and drafting. It makes GT as a whole look very unprofessional when two of its writers go at it like this.