Don’t Expect Much In Free Agency From Blues

By the way, there must be someting in the Chicago water supply. This was in the Southtown Star:

"The free-agent gate opens at 11 a.m. Chicago time. Signing Hossa to something like a six-year, $68 million contract before sunset today would be the epitome of activity. Hossa was last seen leaving the ice at the end of the Stanley Cup Final, empty-handed.

"Imagine what it would be like if, in June of 2009, he leaves the ice carrying the Cup. In Chicago. Wearing the Indian Head.

“It can happen.”

a) i’ve said this for 8 months about not getting free agents. we got one, andy macdonald mid-season. that could easily be it.

b)I’ve also said murray should be gone. for several reasons, but mainly, if he is given a young team with a lot of growing up to do AND a short leash, how in the world is that good for player developement?!?!? how? how? how? (the long and short answers— short one : It AIN’T. long one: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNN’TTTTTTTTTTTT)

c) we could use a free agent top-end center or above average transitional d-man, they are in very short supply this free agency, unless the blues want to go for an rfa (and i think teams may do that this year) which the blues almost certainly will not be involved with. In fact, I suspect the blues would be thanking anyone who makes an offer to any of their rfa’s

d) davidson is saying exactly what pleau was saying 4 years ago. is building from within a commitment this time, or jargon for “cheap and already signed”?

referring to signing Marian Hossa to play for the St. Louis Blues:

Answer Man says, “I’d rather have nut stains on my back.”

looking at the depth chart and line possibiities—-the Blues could use a 3rd line RW. And let Oshie/Berglund fight for that 3rd line center spot. A guy like Jay Pandolfo would be a great teacher for the youngsters…but it looks like he just resigned with the Debils.

Eric Cole dealt to Edmonton…big

For anyone with Direct TV, they’ve been featuring the Blues a lot on the NHL channel and their “Top 10 Playoff moments of the 90s.” Last night it was the top 10 moments between the Blues and Blackhawks. Number one was the Blues sweeping the series in 95 (?) and Belfour throwing a hissy fit. It was classic.

1993 probably, although i didnt see the show, craig janney’s finest moments as a vblue. used to (and might still) have the post disgrace from that day. I believe belfour went ballistic cos brett hull touched him during the overtime winner. but it was a sweep, wasn’t like that play killed the hawks, janeey and belfour killed the hawks

I’m fine with them going with what they have — at least until we get the season going. If the team struggles early, there’s always the chance to make a trade, sign someone who overvalued themself only to sit unsigned, or make a coaching change.

I don’t mind the Blues approach….but if we get dinged with a couple injuries we could find ourselves scrapping for offense yet again (and most likely miss the playoffs again.)

I do.

Not that i mind the approach per se.

but the timing.

worse thing that could have happened was murray playing his team well for two halves of a season.

several playoff misses, hope dashed, etc. I don’t know about you guys, but the tertiary blues fans that had interest peaked at the start of lat season seem to have become disintereted again.

one of several jobs for jd and crew was to keep THOSE fans interested.

again, the only tool that jd and lp have is to fire am 1 mounth into the season. bad position to be put in, should plan “a” not work.

I think they’re making the right decision. Skip free agency (unless something too good to pass up comes along), leave room for the young guys. With the top guys in the org saying “build from within” so much now, I think AM (not Answer Man) will have to change his approach a bit with the youngsters*. I also think Kariya will have a much better year, and the power play will step it up quite a bit.

I may be wrong, but AM seems intelligent enough to know that some things went wrong last year, some of them (at least) were his fault, and that he needs to do some things differently this season.

(* I have no interest in knowing what Answer Man’s approach with the youngsters is)

Of course they now have to deal with the offer sheet Vancover signed Backes to.

probably after they stop laughing and starting scouting euros for the picks we get.

look i ain’t anti young, i’m anti murray in charge of being young. the SCARIEST thing is i read here, and on a few other blues’ fan sites, comments that I could have read 4 years ago if I cared to. this andy murray blah blah blah, will figure it out, hard working, has to go with the team vision, blah blah blah.

He got himself fired from what HE HIMSELF considered a real playoff team cos he couldn’t get them into the playoffs.

eh. andy didn’t learn anything from his kings days, just look at his bench, his special teams, his metods, his ice-time, etc

if the ONLY think murray changes is he plays perron, oshie,jay and the americans, he hasn’t changed enough!!

p.s. i said the blues would have a rfa or two get offers, if the blues didn’t plan for this, and i did, ummm…

FIRE SOMEONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FYI, Backes offer sheet has its own post at the top of the blog.

Oh and for the record, I’m not totally sold on Andy Murray being the head coach. But anyone who thinks he won’t get at least all of this season to prove himself is forgetting that he’s only had one full season in the job to this point. I don’t think JD would pull the plug before the coming campaign is in the books and even then I think he’s safe until Christmas of 2009.

the blues MUST get someone from FA. THEY USED A 4th OVERALL F*&K!%G PICK ON A DEFENSIVE PLAYER!!! C’mon! One of the lowest scoring teams in the NHL over the past 6+ years and they waste a high pick like that on a defenseman. Then you get those people who want to defend the pick by saying defense wins championships… NOT TRUE. If that WERE true Edmonton wouldn’t have rattled off 5 cups. Why DID they win so much?? THEY COULD SCORE A GOAL WHENEVER THEY WANTED TO!! The Blues organization has no intentions of making the playoffs or even having a .500 team. They are going for the cheap way out. I am not a fan of Murray either. If you are going to go young with a team, then PLAY THE GOD DAMN ROOKIES!! How many times did he bench Perron?? How many times will he bench Oshie?? Or will he even play him at all?? His coaching strategies raise tons of red flags to me. If the Blues dont remove their heads from their hind-quarters they will end up in KC.

andy macgyver wrote:

“the blues MUST get someone from FA. THEY USED A 4th OVERALL F*&K!%G PICK ON A DEFENSIVE PLAYER!!! C’mon! One of the lowest scoring teams in the NHL over the past 6+ years and they waste a high pick like that on a defenseman.”

==

Actually, they spent the pick on a defenseman who is an excellent skater, has superb vision and hockey sense, and scored at a point-per-game pace in a VERY tough and competitive major junior league.

They spent the pick on a defenseman who’s already 6-03 (at least) and 205 pounds, and who can easily add 25 pounds of muscle without losing a step.

I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here, sir…

B.

Childhood Trauma wrote:

“davidson is saying exactly what pleau was saying 4 years ago. is building from within a commitment this time, or jargon for "cheap and already signed"?”

==

The big difference from then and now, is that the guy who signs the paychecks is ALSO saying that “build from within” is the plan.

Pleau was well on his way to building from within before Mr. I Married A Wal-Mart Heiress decided he had to compensate for his teeny, tiny penis by somehow outdoing his brother-in-law, Mr. I Married the OTHER Wal-Mart Heiress, at something for the first time in his life.

B.

Well unless this 4th overall pick is gona score 50+ goals and 100+ points in a season Brian, I’d say I’m barking up the right tree. Its people like you who defend stupidity like this. What’s the matter?? Johnson wasn’t good enough?? Another wasted pick. What was JDs rationale for the pick? Now we have 2 top picks to head the power-play!! YES!!! Wait… does he know the majority of hockey is played 5 on 5? Read and re-read, then read it again… TERRIBLE OFFENSE IS NOT SOLVED BY DRAFTING D-MEN!!! The Blues have a deficiency in scoring and that issue is not being addressed. Sugar-coat it all you want with your superman d-man bull… but even Mac and Pronger couldn’t bring a cup to st. louis. Don’t even get me started on how many goalies we have in the minors now… you can only play one at a time last i checked… Ever since they got rid of Pronger its like they are trying so desperately to get someone just like him. You know whats better, SIR, than a 6’3" D-Man who puts up a ppg avg. in a non-nhl league??? A FORWARD WHO DOES THE SAME THING!!! It’s alot better to have that big body in front of the goalie rather than at the blue-line. You might need a dr. to get your head from your hind-quarters, seems to be up there pretty far… Offense wins games, otherwise its just 0-0.

Hey Brian, I don’t think that’s who you think it is. Regardless, we try to keep a better standard around here in the comments. Feel free to disagree, just don’t launch any personal attacks. We’re better than that.

And for the record, there are more offensive prospects in the pipeline than defensive. Also, I don’t think there was any offensive player on the board at No. 4 where you could say he was definitely going to be a 100-point guy. Finally, you take the best player available in the draft at No. 4. Forget any perceived holes on your NHL squad, that pick most years isn’t going to fix your current team.

Brad, I dont think you can ever say any pick is going to definitely be a 100pt guy, but you sure have a better shot at getting one in a forward than a d-man. while i have presented problems with the blues and their drafting, brian tells me i’m wrong with no backing other than the 4th pick being a great skater. WOOT!! Enjoy your perceived victory Brian.

you know we signed the best power forward in the game and traded younguns to get it. we picked up the best centre/leader there ws in a similar deal. took us 10 years to undo it.

not sure replacing the young uns with high priced “proven” studs has worked in the loo.

heck not even paul korea has proved to be the piece his contract promised the team.

Brad: You’re absolutely correct, and I apologize. That was monumentally unprofessional and Hadley-esque of me, as were the Strickland comments in the other thread. I’d appreciate it if you’d remove my comments here, and in that thread as well.

Andy: I apologize to you as well for my remarks… but there are a few things you need to be set straight on.

1). John Davidson is on record as saying that, in his view, offense begins with the transition game. That means it’s key to have good-skating, puck-moving defensemen.

Which is exactly what Pietrangelo is.

And Erik Johnson.

And Jonas Junland and David Warsofsky and Kristoffer Berglund, too, for that matter.

I don’t know your background at all, but I think it’s pretty safe to say it’s not as extensive as John Davidson’s, so if he says that poor offense can indeed be “fixed” with good defensemen, I’m incined to believe him.

2). I told you that you were wrong about the Blues’ pick with more “backing” than just noting that Pietrangelo is a great skater.

I also commented on his own ability to generate offense, as well as his feel for the game, his “hockey sense,” that (if you read the Draft Review I posted earlier) most professional scouts also took notice of.

Again, I don’t know your background, but until you can establish to my satisfaction that you have a better eye for talent now — and for what a player will be five years from now — than Jarmo Kekalainen, Ville Siren, Al Macinnis, Bill Armstrong, Mike Antonovich, Rick Meagher, Craig Channel, and the rest of the Blues’ scouting and development staff, I’ll have to stick with their judgement.

3). Feel free to have, and express, your opinions about the Blues’ scouting and drafting. That’s what this blog is all about. But if you’re going to argue drafting and prospects with me, please bring more than a rant and vague, obvious generalizations about how forwards are more likely to score 100 points than defensemen.

As Brad pointed out, and as I would have also pointed out if I hadn’t let my emotions get the better of me, there’s no forward in the system right now who projects to be a 100-point player, and more importantly, there was no forward available at the fourth-overall pick in the Entry Draft that projects to be a 100-point player.

Indeed, the number of actual 100-point players is very small, even among the guys who have established themselves in the NHL. By my count, only fourteen players have managed to score 100 points at least once (some more than once) since the 2000-01 season.

My opinion — and feel free to argue against it if you disagree — is that the Blues are looking to build a team similar to the 1980-81 club that had ten players who scored at least 20 goals (Wayne Babych was highest with 54), and three offense-minded blueliners (Rick Lapointe, Joe Micheletti and Jack Brownschidle) getting the puck moving out of the defensive zone and through center ice.

No “perceived victory” here, Andy. Just observations made from forty years of following this game, this team in particular, and this team’s player development operations specifically.

B.

Common sense dictates that if you don’t have skilled forwards who can handle the puck, the transition game means nothing, regardless of how amazing your defense. Example, Detroit and Pittsburgh. Both teams have players who can take the puck and dipsy-doodle around all the other players out there and take the puck to the net. How many players like that do the Blues have? That’s why the Blues suck and Detroit and Pitts. don’t.
And if my vague and obvious generalizations are just that, why are you still arguing pro-defense? I forget the year off hand, (2000-01 maybe – the year the Blues won the President’s Trophy) the Blues had an amazing defense, fantastic gaa, and where did that get them? Why did they fail? They couldn’t score goals.
Even if the people available in the draft were not 100pt players, wouldn’t at least one of them be a 20g scorer?? Doesn’t that fit into their 80-81 scheme?? An abundance of offense surely cannot hurt you, only help you.
I may not be Al MacInnis and I may not have the “expertise” of JD or the other yahoos you rambled off, but I do know defensemen can only add so much to a team. Unfortunately for the Blues, its not enough. The Blues are a team which desperately needs goal scorers.
Your forty years of observation are fantastic, but in my 10 years of playing hockey, the team I am on didn’t start winning until we brought in forwards who could score and handle the puck, despite our superior defense. We had consistently finished in the top 3 for fewest goals against each season, but were unable to score goals.
Bring back Scotty Bowman, draft forwards, and get the team to play team defense and you have a great formula there. Loading up on defense doesn’t solve anything.

“That’s why the Blues suck….”

“Macinnis … JD or the other yahoos you rambled off…”

Thanks for making your agenda crystal-clear.

This “conversation” is over.

B.

a day late and dollar short but

brad— why don’t you think this team is willing, able, or wanting to fire am without a full year?

we got exactly one example of this team’s coaching accumen, Mike Kitchen. I believe he was fired in the peroid of 48 hours during a team management visit to boise.

again, think what you will, but i think the fans seats will drive this teams coaching decision, because that is the ONLY response these team has left itself for a slow start, or falling apart in the second half. they ain’t signing anyone. they yoiuth ain’t going to take aging pills, and their vets ain’t friends with ponce de leon.

if the teams performance hurts attendence, what exactly do you expect the blues to do about it?

CT, think about it this way. Has Andy Murray been given a fair shot to succeed? He inherited a team already out of the playoffs when he came on board in December 06. He didn’t have training camp, he wasn’t involved in any player discussions. While the team showed some flashes, it’s hard to judge him on what happened that year.

That leaves us with last season. The team played a bit over its head through December and then somewhat below its abilities from January on. You mean to tell me that Davidson, who has shown patience in staying the course and thinking long term, will decide to change coaches midway through next season? I just don’t see it. Unless they utterly collapse and are a complete joke, Murray in my opinion will be around through next season.

The other point I made was that Davidson has to know that firing two coaches about two years apart and with Kitchen serving one full season and Murray serving one full season would make most legitimate coaching candidates relunctant to take the job for fear they’d have a short shelf life as well.

kitchen can’t buy a head coach job today, i think his removal will not affect anyones decision (wow if i totally sux like aluminum mike did i’ll get fired! yikes! run away!!!!!) . if murray makes it to xmas, he will have 150 games. we can complain about certian things, but 150 games is not still “in the auditioning/free roll” range of a coaching job, in most contracts it would be 2/3rds of the way through..

and your telling me Tort is so afraid he doesnt take a significant contract here? money makes people sleep good at night. buys mucho nightlights and ghost hunters to keep the scares away.

but again, you havent addressed what the team DOES do with a poor start. you hinted now that a collapse will doom murray. define collapse.

I define it as not enough butts in the seats. end of story. i think assuming our ownership group is NOT concerned about season 3 butt counts is inaccurate. I think checkets wants the blues to get off the bottom of the ticket price rung. wants to see at least the beginning of last year attendence all though these season, and wants that ALL to happen without increasing the budget.

the local press had turned on murrqay a bit last season. (as has the national, but no one in st louis reads national hockey coverage cos it is either east coast or great white) if the fans and the papers stay on him and the blues play .500 (so-so but out of it), you really think an empty saavis will see andy murray’s skelator impression in feburary?

and again I wear hockey sweaters a lot, even in summer, at work, everywere. as such i get a lot of hockey questions. last year at this time there was already a buzz about the blues season, this year it is ALREADY a death knell. i can not count the number of times tertiary fans have already complained about them leaving the blues behind if the blues fail to make the playoffs “again”

you hearing something different?? is checketts???

so perhaps it is not murrays head i am really thinking about but your butt, what in the world does checketts have up his sleeve to hget your butt glues to a seat other than firing murray, or getting off to a strong start (in an increasing tough division and conference)?

plan a: win

plan b: fire murray

plan c: move to kc

what am i missing? anyone here expect that plan a is fool proof? I’d HAVE to be cos murray is the fool in charge!!!