Did The Blues Blow The 2006 Draft?
Alex, I'd like three millionaires still in puberty for $1,000.
I'll start by admitting that asking whether or not the Blues made a mistake by taking Erik Johnson over Jonathan Toews right now is patently unfair. But with Toews ( I mean Taves) leading his Chicago Blackhawks...gulp...to the Conference Finals for the first time since 1995, I think it's a decent topic to talk about -- unfair or not.
Before that draft when the Blues had the No. 1 overall pick (ah, the glory days), it was obvious the Blues at the NHL level had a lot of holes. They didn't have a true No. 1 defenseman, they had depth problems with skilled fowards. Those are both of the areas teams try to address that high in the draft. The first player selected should be (knock on wood) a cornerstone guy for the franchise, someone you build around. That's exactly what Chicago did with their young captain. And that's what the Blues are trying to do with Johnson. If only he hadn't gone golfing with the veterans (the damaging effects of Manny "Golf Trip Planner From Hell" Legace live on).
As you look at the roster for the Blues next year and try to understand what the needs are on the team, the most glaring spot is an offensively gifted defenseman who can hopefully help in the transition game and give a legit shot to the point on the power play. That's what Erik Johns was drafted for and the role he will play on this team...when he's healthy.
So knowing what you know now, would you rather the Blues have drafted Toews(Taves) or Johnson? Vote in the poll, show your work in the comments.
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It's not the players...
you should be comparing, it’s what you pair them with. Give Toews a Patrick Kane and he’s great. Give EJ a golf cart and well…..you know.
by forgetyerskatesdream on May 12, 2009 1:13 PM CDT reply actions
The problem with comparing forwards and D-men is that, by and large, defensemen and the work they do is not very exciting. A forward such as Toews, as skilled as he is, would not be as valuable to this team as a future top-pairing blueliner like EJ.
With Toews, you can see highlight reel action in the form of good passes and crafty goals.
With Johnson, you can’t really see much that’ll make the “Top 10 plays” other than the occasional power play slapshot goal (If he comes back with the blueline shot he had the year prior). Johnson’s job, when he’s doing it right in our end, involves impeding a forward’s process, taking his puck, and sending it up to our forwards. Nothing glamorous there, but you can’t have a good team without it.
As for the Blues top pick in 2006, I don’t think Toews was ever on our radar. If it wasn’t Erik Johnson, I think we would have gone for the 17th Staal kid.
For my money, EJ was the right pick. Toews certainly has the lead for now in playoff experience and golf cart safety. We’ll see in a few years how things shake out for the long haul.
by Poor College Student on May 12, 2009 1:15 PM CDT reply actions
I selected EJ.
Because I’m a homer.
Or because I still think it’s the right pick. He’s shown himself not to be a complete asshole, the year he WAS healthy he was as impressive a rookie as I’ve ever seen in a Blues uniform (Teeeeeeej’s ‘08-’09 notwithstanding) and I’ll take solid blue-line play with a touch of offensive skill blended in before I’ll take flash-and-dash forwards any day of the week. (Can you tell I agree with PCS’s analysis? Am I laying it on thick enough? Heh.)
This is not to say I wouldn’t have enjoyed “Taves” or “Staal Brother Of The Month” on my team, but hey . . . who’s to say the golf cart wouldn’t have eaten either of THEM as Blues, either? C’mon now, we all know our history here.
So I say to Jarmo (who I’m certain is NOT listening) . . . you were correct-ola on this pick. Good on ya, O Bald One.
"The world is getting to be such a dangerous place, a man is lucky to get out of it alive." -- W.C. Fields
You're joking, right?
You build a successful team from the back to the front. Having a franchise defenseman pretty much makes the whole team better. Oh, and Toews wouldn’t be so good without Brian Campbell and Keith behind him on defense. He’s still weak in his own zone.
I thought it was a decent question.
And it’s not like we’ve got a lot of other Blues news to chew on.
Honestly, I’m a little surprised only 17 people have voted for Taves. Thought it would be higher.
www.stlouisgametime.com
I do think it's an interesting question to ask, but...
how about something for the 23rd anny of the Monday Night Miracle? Or are you saving something for 2 years from now when the 25th Anny comes on the eve of the Western Finals, Blues vs Redwings/Blackhawks?
You’re assuming a.) that the defensemen pans out b.) that he does so in less time than it would take for a team to give up on him and trade him away, c.) that he doesn’t cripple your cap after three so-so years of his entry deal and never really earns the big contract he got based on his potential to be a franchise defender soon, d.) that he isn’t taken away with an offer sheet when he’s an RFA leaving you with a replacement pick, but not one as high as the pick you used drafting the D-man and only getting three years while he was still growing into an NHL’er and e.) the team wont spend another two first rounders on defensemen in the following drafts. Also you somehow are under the illusion that Brian Campbell is good in his own zone.
A lot of those scenarios could happen with the forward too, but you’d get more bang for you buck. Forwards develop a hell of a lot faster and in the cap age that issue alone is going to make building from the back end a risky endeavor. The blues are already going to be in a shit ton of trouble trying to manage the contracts of EJ and Petro, throw Cole into the mix and it makes no sense the blues drafted all of them. defensemen are valuable trade bait, but usually when they’re older, not when they’re unproven. we dodged a bullet with cole not turning pro this year, just buys us a year for the cap to grow.
between ej and toews Id rather have toews, couple him with oshie and it would be outrageous. plus 34 goals and 35 assists, that puts him only 3 points behind boyes for the lead on the blues (1 more goal, 4 less assists).
No illusions about Campbell, but...
Would Towes be as good with the Blues current defense behind him instead of the Blackhawks defense and without Patrick Kane? If you really want to compare apples with apples, that’s what we’re talking about.
I didn’t say anything about Campbell being good in his own zone, but he does start the breakout well, and he’s a very good skater from the back line. Keith and Seabrook aren’t exactly chopped liver, either.
Oshie=Kane? I don’t quite think so, and I’m a HUGE Oshie fan for what he brings to the ice and the team on the ice with him. The King of St. Louis is good, but he’s also a year behind Kane on the development curve.
I also did not say that Toews was a defensive liability; he’s just not that good in his own end – although I haven’t seen him play outside of the Blues/Blackhawks games, so it’s a limited sample, especially since the Blues owned the Hawks this year. Defensive liability, I think Rick Nash, who hangs out by the blue line waiting to cherry pick, or David Perron, whose floating got him into trouble early in the season.
Finally, my counter-argument is that defense and goaltending still win Stanley cups, even in this era of increased offense. Washington wouldn’t be headed for game 7 without benching Theodore. The Dead Things puck possession game limits the serious chances on Osbad are two examples. All the offense in the world isn’t going to get it done without that second piece.
by The Goalie Guy on May 13, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Seems like a pretty fair question.
It could only be considered unfair if you didn’t know what you’re talking about. And since you think Toews is somehow a defensive liability, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Got more soul than a sock with a hole.
I didnt vote
I love what Taves is able to do. I really think he is something the Blues are missing. We all love the Kid Line, but none of them have done with Toews has done. And, he is the Captain of the team.
I’m also pretty down on EJ right now. The knee injury scares me and I don’t know if he will come back and be No. 1 pick or just a very good defenseman.
I guess, gun to my head, you have to EJ. No one could have predicting the golf cart injury and his potential was, at the time, off the charts. People were talking about him in such lofty terms. I guess if I had a Delorean, I’d tell them to take EJ, but make sure he doesnt ever golf.
Think of Pronger...
…when he was selected #2 overall by Hartford back in 1993, Jason Arnott was taken #7 by Edmonton. They both debuted in 93-94 for their respective teams, with Arnott scoring 33 goals as a rookie. I’m sure, given Prongers lackluster start to his career in Hartford, you could have gotten a lot of Whalers fans to scream that they should have taken Arnott #2 instead (or Paul Kariya taken #4). I’d rather have had Pronger I think.
but
the real winners were the sens, who took alexandre daigle first overall, passing on kariya, arnott AND pronger. man oh man.
2009 offseason reading: "Nate the Great and the missing powerplay."
by NateTheGreat. on May 12, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
true
but to his credit, the best goalie to hang out in his primetime years in ANH was guy hebert, if i remember right. not exactly one you can ride to the cup.
2009 offseason reading: "Nate the Great and the missing powerplay."
by NateTheGreat. on May 12, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Alexandre Daigle . . .
Wow. What a worthless festering bag of fucking balls-suck THAT guy was . . .
I mean, the Sens were already bad enough back then, but THAT pick probably set their overall progress back a good five or so years. Yeesh.
"The world is getting to be such a dangerous place, a man is lucky to get out of it alive." -- W.C. Fields
I have to say I would take EJ. The Blues drafted on what they thought they needed most. Sure another dynamite forward would have helped, but apparently defense was the higher priority. As said before, no one could have predicted the golf cart injury.
Besides, he’s no really had a lot of time to play and mature. Missing this entire season doesn’t help. Give him a couple years. Then it will be a lot easier to see if we pooched it.
Barret Jackman is my hero.
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
You ALWAYS... always, always, ALWAYS...
…take the franchise defenseman over the franchise forward.
Personally, I don’t find Toews all that impressive. Oh, sure, he’s good… damn good… but he’s workmanlike. Not flashy by any means. That’s not to say I wouldn’t have him on the Blues, but I think we’re jumping the shark here by even asking this question. It’s comparing apples to oranges, or like asking who you’d rather sleep with — the Penthouse Pet of the Year or the Playboy Playmate of the Year (or Brad Pitt vs. Hugh Jackman for the ladies out there).
If Johnson doesn’t miss a season because he was dicking around in a golf cart, this question doesn’t get asked.
B.
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851
http://futurenotes.blogspot.com
by Tomorrows Blues on May 12, 2009 9:56 PM CDT reply actions
I have a few responses
A. Brian Sutter said hard work is a skill. I believe him. Taves is skilled.
B. There are definite differences between a Pet and a Playmate. Just like there are differences in these two players.
C. The headline might be different for this story if Johnson doesn’t miss the season, but I think it’s still a decent topic in that case. Then it comes down to personal preference to the kind of player each is.
At the end of the day, I think the votes for Johnson are an example of optimism in the future and trust in Jarmo and Co.
www.stlouisgametime.com
i dont know if its trust in jarmo
but i took it as, they made the right move AT THE TIME. if the nhl decided to redo that draft again today, i don’t think the blues would take ej first. coming off a serious knee injury, hes ceiling is lower than it was on draft day.
did the blues blow the draft? no. ej was the top dman and something the blues needed. did a golf cart fuck things up? yes, but thems the breaks. you cant blame jarmo and co. for the guy getting hurt. its not like hes not living up to his potential by playing like sister christian beckman.
yeah, what you said rings very true, johnson wasn’t only the top d man, he was the top guy, period. number one picks are usually consensus things and EJ was at the top of the list in everybody’s book, i cant fault the blues for drafting him, but id say if they offered up a one for one deal to swap the two now, id take it.
Speakin of swap
remember the rumor the next draft that the Blues offered all thre No. 1s (Eller, Cole, Perron ultimately) for the No. 1 overall, which was used on Patrick Kane.
Now that’s an interesting scenario if the Blues had pulled that off.
www.stlouisgametime.com
Call me crazy.....
but that 2006 draft adds more weight to my Blues curse theory. We finally get our mitts on a franchise D man and he comes up lame before the first game from a freakin gold cart. What are the odds Madam Cleo?
I think the Blues made the right move taking EJ but had they known of the curse, who would they have picked instead?
Hatrick Kane I see they are calling the lad on 2nd City now.
Dum spiramus tuebimur
Jump the SHAAAAARK????
The shark…it is dead…..*wail**gurgle**death*
"I suddenly hate Canada with a passion = BASTARDS!!!!!! " -Mr K, Upon hearing Moyes filing Chapter 11
I'm going EJ
I agree with teh opinion that you take the Franchise Defensemen above the Franchise Forward. Fluke injury is a fluke injury, I still say it was the right pick. Whether or not he has a better career, who knows, but if you give me the player descrptions coming into the draft and nothing else, I’d have tkaen Johnson, and that’s basically all I can say
Hawks fan here...
The other reason that Johnson was the right pick for the Blues was that he was coming to the NHL immediately, while Toews was going to play in the World Juniors, so he’d be at least a year away.
That’s the same mindset the Hawks used in choosing Kane over Kyle Turris the following year.- Kane was coming to the NHL, so the Hawks could get two top picks to help right away.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
The only problem with that assessment . . .
was that neither player came to their NHL clubs immediately . . . people forget that EJ spent a year at Minnesota (and almost led them to a Frozen Four, which I THINK was in St. Louis that year if memory serves me right . . . that would’ve been nuts) before signing his entry-level contract with the Note.
I remember vividly my reaction to EJ going to college for a year . . . my thoughts were, “Wow. Top overall draft pick and he isn’t even gonna go pro immediately? How BAD must the Blues BE?!” (or something like that). I’m certainly glad those thoughts have gone awry . . . .
"The world is getting to be such a dangerous place, a man is lucky to get out of it alive." -- W.C. Fields
i was at those frozen four games. oshie was there with und, after hed already been picked by the blues in the first round. the place wasnt all that crazy at all, even after he scored a crazy ass backhand shorthanded goal all by his goddamn self. to be fair, its not like the whole place was blues fans, my buddy and I sat between a couple from wisconsin who kept wondering aloud why they were there if the badgers weren’t in it and two dudes from kansas city, one of them wearing a canucks jersey who said he’d been a fan since bure and the other guy showed up in a different team canada jersey each day. we didn’t talk to them.
It's possible . . .
that the Gospel of the Osh had not been spoken yet at that point.
But I’m pretty sure all Blues fans that would’ve been in attendance DID know about EJ. He being the top overall pick and all. I bet it would’ve been more of a pro-Gopher crowd had they made it.
"The world is getting to be such a dangerous place, a man is lucky to get out of it alive." -- W.C. Fields
My bad...
I actually expected the Blues to take Toews in that draft and Johnson would fall to the HAwks, giving them another high-first-round D-man (after Seabrook and Barker).
Bottom line is, the Blues made the right pick at the time.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
Quick correction...
Johnson spent his first post-draft year in college hockey.
by The Goalie Guy on May 13, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions
I selected...
I selected E.J.
Give it a couple more years to determine who came out better Overall Player to their respective teams. Big, Talented Blueliners are difficult to find. However… I met E.J. a month ago at a autograph session, and IMO : looked " Thin " to me. E. J. needs to bulk up.
by Steve A Reno 1965 on May 13, 2009 12:31 PM CDT reply actions
As an outsider to the Blues, I’ll just say this. In Drafts, you honestly have rough estimations as to how great someone can be, and it’s all pinned upon the team’s hope they’ll live up to their possible potential.
Obviously, for now, you’d go Toews. However, you can never wrap up who did what right, in drafts, until their careers are all put into a better perspective than three years.
PensBurgh penalty - Lavender - 2 minutes for hijynxing.
absolutely
yes they blow it.plain and simple.but we cant blaim them.we didnt no teows would be this big of a star.give erik a couple seasons and he will dominate
OSHIE! OSHIE! OSHIE!
man, even if the blues did blow it, the pens blew it a lot harder by taking the lesser staal over toews, kessel, backstrom, and brassard.

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