Selke Trophy Statistical Comparison

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 2:15 PM CDT in Jay McClement For Selke Trophy

Per request, I've translated Icion's marvelous statistical comparison into chart form. This makes it much easier to comparitively analyze Jay McClement vs. his rivals for Selke Trophy consideration.

All statistics used in the chart below are from the 2009-10 season. McClement is compared against the three Selke finalists from last year. In the "Quality of Competition" category, a higher number = better competition. Likewise, in the "Quality of Teammates" category, a higher number = better teammates.

Player	Jay McCLEMENT	Pavel DATSYUK	Ryan KESLER	Jordan STAAL
Even Str ToI	1056	1303	1164	1159
Even Str GA	43	44	61	45
Minutes per ESG	24.50	29.60	19.08	25.70
Shorthanded ToI	306	59	218	274
GA while S/H	24	6	21	29
Min per GA while S/H	12.75	9.80	10.30	9.44
Quality of Competition	.062	.029	.030	.044
Quality of Teammates	.054	.364	.020	.155
Relative QCm/QTm Ratio	1.070	0.554	0.896	0.903
Giveaways	28	73	28	31
Takeaways	39	132	83	41
Shots Blocked	52	33	73	41
Hits	66	89	95	121
S/H Faceoffs W	189	27	118	118
S/H Faceoffs L	231	29	123	148
S/H FoW %	45%	48%	48%	44%
E/S Faceoffs W	503	447	530	468
E/S Faceoffs L	470	362	429	495
E/S FoW %	51%	55%	55%	48%
Penalty Minutes	22	18	104	57
Games Played	82	80	82	82
Games per Minor Penalty	7.50	8.80	1.57	2.80
S/H Points	0 G, 2 A	0 G, 0 A	1 G, 2 A	1 G, 3 A

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Comments

"Shits blocked."

Lol?

I push snow during TV time-outs. The Blues pay me in jumpsuits.

by bradflick55 on Nov 1, 2010 2:19 PM CDT reply actions

Just corrected that little typo...

The “I” and “O” keys are too close together. :)

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Is there a key stat here?

Can you highlight some cells in the grid that stand out as good and/or bad? Looking at this, Kesler looks pretty strong. Better than Jay? No idea.

by Mr. Particle on Nov 1, 2010 2:56 PM CDT reply actions

I would think that "Relative QCm/QTm" should be the big one.

Basically, it’s an attempt to measure who’s the best penalty-killer on the ice against the opponents’ best power play squad. It’s an “advanced metric”, though, which means that the old-guard media guys will automatically disregard it.

Shorthanded TOI goes along with this (you put your best guy out there as much as possible), but I’d like to see where each of these guys stands in relation to their team’s own roster. Did Jay Mac have the most PK-TOI among Blues’ forwards? Where did Datsyuk and Kesler and Staal rank in PK time on their own team? Datsyuk only had 59 minutes of PK time, which cannot be tops on the Wings. Highlight the team rank next to TOI, and it will immediately become obvious which forwards are being used in a defensive capacity.

The biggest part of the campaign, though, has to be to disabuse voters of the notion that the Selke should be awarded to the Best Offensive Forward Who Actually Backchecks. The word “offensive” is not present in the description of the trophy; so it shouldn’t be present in the consideration of the candidates.

by BleedBlue42 on Nov 1, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed...

I’m a little fuzzy on how the Quality of Competition and Quality of Teammates is measured, however.

And I’m open to suggestions as to which cells should be highlighted.

It’s Icion’s data… I just charted it. :)

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Shorthanded TOI, Team Rank, 2009-10.

Jay McClement: 1st (1st in league)

Pavel Datsyuk: 8th (190th in league)

Ryan Kesler: 1st (17th in league)

Jordan Staal: 1st (2nd in league)

Not only was Jay Mac the leader on the Blues, he logged almost a hundred minutes more than second-place Crombeen (who was 21st in the league). I didn’t look at all 30 teams; but for the four linked above, that’s the biggest gap by far.

by BleedBlue42 on Nov 1, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions

That numbers atnds out for me, too...

Consider that row highlighted.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions

"stands"

Also highlighting the “SH faceoffs won” row, since penalty kill starts with puck posession.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions

And boldfaced the leader(s) in each category

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions

yeah I am having a hard time interpreting this data… not any fault of the grid, I mean it’s only a failure of comprehension on my part.

First they thought I was ASD, and then ADHD, and after a few years of having MD, they told me that I am probably EI. But all I know for sure is that I have TS... Fuck it, just call me alphabet soup.

by Carnie on Nov 1, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Where Kelser slips for me...

…is in the fact that he takes so many penalties in comparison to the other players.

You can’t very well kill penalties when you’re the one in the box.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

2 things

Jordan Staal (Pittsburghs guy) not Eric.

This explains qualcomp http://www.behindthenethockey.com/2009/10/8/1076586/frequently-asked-question-2.

He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Jay McClement for Selke in 2011. Justice will be served. Penalties will be killed.

by Icion on Nov 1, 2010 4:12 PM CDT reply actions

Also

http://www.behindthenethockey.com/2009/10/9/1078607/frequently-asked-questions-about
This explains alot more of the stats they use on the behind the net site. To check the stats mentioned you can go here http://www.behindthenet.ca/ .

He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Jay McClement for Selke in 2011. Justice will be served. Penalties will be killed.

by Icion on Nov 1, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Good stuff, Maynard...

If we use this graphic in the future, we should probably include the links above for reference.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions

fixed

St. Louis Game Time Fact: Morning links are part of a well-balanced meal.

SBNSTL Writing about the Blues in more than one line is tough.

by averagejoe on Nov 1, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Thanks, Joe.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Read, rec'd, linked and tweeted.

Whew, I’m exhausted. ;)

I may skank around and visit my other favorite teams' SBNation blogs, but I always come home to www.stlouisgametime.com and my beloved St Louis Blues.

Also...St. Louis Cardinals. Denver Broncos. Univ of Denver Hockey and Lacrosse. Colorado Mammoth and Colorado Outlaws Lacrosse.

by HockeyHippie on Nov 1, 2010 6:11 PM CDT reply actions

take the rest of the day off ;)

Just a chew toy for the hockey gods

by spectr17 on Nov 1, 2010 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions

Beer me!

I may skank around and visit my other favorite teams' SBNation blogs, but I always come home to www.stlouisgametime.com and my beloved St Louis Blues.

Also...St. Louis Cardinals. Denver Broncos. Univ of Denver Hockey and Lacrosse. Colorado Mammoth and Colorado Outlaws Lacrosse.

by HockeyHippie on Nov 1, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions

As long as it ain't Coors...

Killians, on the other hand.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions

I find it interesting that the so-called "best defensive forward in hockey," per DRW fans...

…plays the least amount of time — by far — on the PK than any of these other worthy competitors.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 6:20 PM CDT reply actions

ewwww

You’re gonna pop some bubbles with those stats

Just a chew toy for the hockey gods

by spectr17 on Nov 1, 2010 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions

Thanks for graphing this out.

I know I might get flamed for this, but according to these stats it looks like this is a two man race—McClement and Datsyuk. Due to the talent of his teammates, Pavel doesn’t get the minutes that Jay does, but he performs when he does.

Jay, however, does play the minutes and plays them damn well. He’s out there nonstop for one of, if not the, best PK units over the last couple of seasons, playing the big minutes and winning the faceoffs. And I’m pretty sure he’s winning the hat trick competition, too.

by Manbones on Nov 1, 2010 6:47 PM CDT reply actions

I won't flame you...

I mean, yeah, Datsyuk’s a Red Wing, and as such, is a diuchebag of the first order.

But it’s not like he’s a lousy defensive forward by any stretch. He does a more-than-passable job on the PK, but just doesn’t play that role often enough — in my mind, anyway — to justify three straight Selkes and a “rep” as the best defensive forward out there.

Datsyuk, much as I dislike him, may be the best two-way player in the league (insert joke here), but the Selke is intended to be awarded to the best defenisve forward in the league, and Datsyuk isn’t that guy.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions

the prob with dats is

hes got such a rep and hype that he’s already considered the favorite THIS year because he’s dats.

dude is good, but its not like hes gretzky in a league full of winchesters. hes not so far beyond other two-way forwards that the award should be given to him forever.

same thing with lidstrom. finally his run was stopped. again, hes really fucking good, but he wasnt the absolute runaway best like sports writers and wings’ fans made him out to be.

St. Louis Game Time Fact: Morning links are part of a well-balanced meal.

SBNSTL Writing about the Blues in more than one line is tough.

by averagejoe on Nov 1, 2010 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Dude is huge

huger than the balls on them guys in the SW Pacific with elephantitus

Just a chew toy for the hockey gods

by spectr17 on Nov 1, 2010 7:05 PM CDT reply actions

And now J Staal out for possibly another 6 weeks with a hand injury.

I would think as far as games played alone, that should cross him off any voters’ Selke ballot.

I may skank around and visit my other favorite teams' SBNation blogs, but I always come home to www.stlouisgametime.com and my beloved St Louis Blues.

Also...St. Louis Cardinals. Denver Broncos. Univ of Denver Hockey and Lacrosse. Colorado Mammoth and Colorado Outlaws Lacrosse.

by HockeyHippie on Nov 1, 2010 7:07 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah, but I can keep him on IR with the Route 66 Regiment, so I can take advantage of his skillz when he comes back...

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Ugghhh.

Dammit. Poor kid – what awful luck he has. And what awful luck a few of my fantasy teams have. Now I have to replace him with a center who is as good as he is from the dregs that are leftover in the leagues. Swell. Awful for the Pens, too. But I care more about me.

BTW, thank you for the visual representation of the stats – it helps clear stuff up a bunch. Consider this hyped up on the blog that no one reads once I get out of a billion staff meetings today.

Thrashing the Blues
SB Nation Atlanta - home of the Fairest and Weatheriest fans on the net.

Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?

Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.

by hildymac on Nov 2, 2010 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions

The quality of teammates stat means the HIGHER the number the BETTER your linemates are, right?

So the category leader would be Kesler at .020, followed by McClement at .054. Those guys, goes the reasoning, are doing more with less support, I believe. Datsyuk, at .364 has far and away the better linemates, which also contributes to his success offensively.

SWYD

by gallagher on Nov 1, 2010 8:58 PM CDT reply actions

Makes sense to me...

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions

So how long until we see

this season’s stats?

by Mr. Particle on Nov 1, 2010 10:15 PM CDT reply actions

If Icion (or someone else) e-mails 'em to me...

…I’ll chart ’em.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 1, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions

I will pump out the numbers Wednesday hopefully and hook you up with them. I will also try and explain how I did/found all the calculations so you guys can do it as well.

He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Jay McClement for Selke in 2011. Justice will be served. Penalties will be killed.

by Icion on Nov 2, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions

Hell. Fucking. Yeah.

HOCKEY SABERMETRICIANS UNITE AND KICK ASS!!!!!

St. Louis Game Time . . . I need another beer.
And I can also write things in 140 characters or fewer.

by Donut King on Nov 2, 2010 12:15 AM CDT reply actions

Hockeymetricians?

Sahermetricians?

“Sabermetrics” comes from SABR, the Society for American Baseball Research. EQA and OPS just don’t translate to the rink.

by BleedBlue42 on Nov 2, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Ehhhh, I'm not the one to take time for acronyms and shit.

So I went with the first available. And yeah, I knew that.

St. Louis Game Time . . . I need another beer.
And I can also write things in 140 characters or fewer.

by Donut King on Nov 2, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions

One other stat I need to figure out

Zone start. Behind the net calculates this by seeing which zone the puck dropped when you were on the ice (you dont have to be the one taking the faceoff). If you are taking a face off in the defensive zone its most likely that the opponent has their scoring forwards out and there’s a higher probability of you getting scored on as opposed to taking the face off in the offensive zone. McClement started 58.8% of the time in the Dzone(a league leader) and had almost 400 defensive starts. He was constantly put into defensive situations and came out ahead which in my mind makes his minutes per even strength goals superior to Dats. I have to justify this argument with numbers which I wont be able to do for the next 24 hours due to sleep then work.

He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Jay McClement for Selke in 2011. Justice will be served. Penalties will be killed.

by Icion on Nov 2, 2010 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

And just to toss this out there before I get to sleep this morning. You know which defensemen took the highest % of defensive zone starts last year? Roman fucking Polak. Second place? Barret Jackman. They both took 200(!!!) more defensive starts than offensive. This doesn’t relate to anything I just thought it was an awesome stat.

He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Jay McClement for Selke in 2011. Justice will be served. Penalties will be killed.

by Icion on Nov 2, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions

Is it wrong that I love the idea of hockey stats being as comprehensive and all-encompassing as baseball stats...

For someone who was never much good at advanced matehmatics (except geometry, for some strange reason), I find myself fascinated by hockey stats and how much more in-depth they could be. Goals, assists, points and PIM may be enough for some people, but I want more…

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

http://futurenotes.blogspot.com

by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 2, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions