Tuesdays With Hildy: Should RFA Poaching Be Used More Often?
We all remember last year, when the Vancouver Canucks reeeally wanted David Backes. Mike Gilles signed our very own Chuck Norris to an offer sheet, which the Blues matched in a heartbeat. John Davidson then decided to show his displeasure by signing Steve Bernier to an offer sheet, forcing Gilles to match the $2.5 million dollar offer. Matter solved between the two teams, both of whom had the cap space to spare, but it was highlighted in the press as an example of why offer sheets are verboten, or at least considered impolite. Granted, the Brian Burke/Kevin Lowe feud stemming from the Great Dustin Penner Affair is the daddy of all offer sheet feuds, but any time an offer sheet's tendered, well, it gets press.
Most recently, the San Jose Sharks tendered an offer sheet to Niklas Hjalmarsson of the Chicago Blackhawks. It was a four year, $14 million contract that the Sharks could afford easily. The Blackhawks, on the other hand, are still in the middle of trying to work out cap issues. The defenseman, who scored 2 goals and 15 assists during 77 regular season games, was only signed for $666,000 on a two way contract. He was due a payraise, but one to about $3,500,000 was not one that the Blackhawks were planning on. The Hawks matched the contract offer, and now have about $113,000 in cap space remaining to sign a goalie, two defensemen, and three forwards. Have fun with that.
Why am I bringing this up? People have suggested Duck poaching.
Bobby Ryan would fit perfectly with the team. The 23 year old scored 35 goals last season at a salary level of about $765,000 (not counting bonuses). His cap hit was only a shade under $2 million. And apparently the Ducks are trying to low-ball him in the RFA negotiations. He remains unsigned. Why? Ryan rejected a 5 year, $25 million deal by the Ducks. $5 million a year for a 35 goal scorer might seem a bit pricey, even for a team with the cap space for it, but if people wanted the Blues to go after Kovalchuk and his $10 million a season price tag, this is even better. Ryan will produce slightly less goals than Kovalchuk for just over half of the asking price.
What would the Blues have to give up?
Under the 2005 CBA, a player making a salary in Ryan's range for the previous season warrants one first round, second round, and third round draft pick. That, plus the salary, is what the Blues would need to fork over for Bobby Ryan.
We need another goal scorer - Brad Boyes is not a surefire thing to come bouncing back next season. Someone needs to supply that offense. If Boyes does rebound, then the Blues will potentially have two thirty goal scorers on the team.
That being said, does the common courtesy of not trying to poach players from other teams override the need to improve your own club? Nice or ruthless - what say you?
29 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Rabbit season!
No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.
by Poor College Student on Jul 13, 2010 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd like
Elmer Fudd’s speaking ability.
Let's go Blues!!!
by Milo. on Jul 13, 2010 11:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
The holdup in the Bobby Ryan deal wasn’t the dollars per year, it was the number of years. Ryan said he does not want to be paid more than Getzlaf or Perry at this point, but he also wants to go to free agency sooner than the 5 year contract would allow.
He probably would sign an offer sheet at $5 million and 4 years or $6 million and 4 years, but the Ducks would surely match anything thrown at them.
I’m not a huge fan of offer sheets, but I would like to have Mr. Ryan on the Blues.
Another guy that I would be interested in is Blake Wheeler. He has one year left on his entry level deal. He’s also big, he’s young, he’s skilled, and in his first two years he’s scored 21 and 18 goals. Not fantastic, but I’d definitely like to see the Blues add another guy who could pot 20-30 goals this year.
I don’t know much about him as a person, except that he fucked over the Coyotes, so I don’t know if he’d would really be a good fit. Also, the Blues have a lot of RFAs coming up already. But, the Bruins need to dump some salary and it looks like they will either move Wheeler or Savard, and guys with Wheeler’s size and skill don’t come along every day.
The link above is from 2001.
RFA compensation from 2009 is here. I haven’t found a link for 2010, but the numbers should be similar.
If the average salary is $5M, the compensation is a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd. As oplaid mentioned, the holdup with Ryan is that he only wants a deal to take him to his UFA season. Since money isn’t the main obstacle, I think the Ducks would match any offer that isn’t completely insane.
(You know, insane. Like the 6-year, $50 million sheet he’ll get offered by the Kings if they don’t get Kovalchuk signed.)
Thank you much!
I think that it helps to double check the time of publication.
Thrashing the Blues
SB Nation Atlanta - home of the Fairest and Weatheriest fans on the net.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Homer sez: “Doh!”
Let's go Blues!!!
by Milo. on Jul 14, 2010 6:04 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I gotta say no......
Now I know that EJ isnt able to sign offer sheets due to missing a year thanks to fucking golf carts(Fucking golf…I hate it) but imagine our anger if he were able to sign somewhere else and one of these teams waaaay under the cap threw an offer at him that was just obsurd….now we know we need to sign a couple more guys and we still need a scorer…..and theres the future to think of too……do you want to match a sheet that screws your cap up 2 or 3 years down the road??? I say no……Just work on keeping your own guys in house and then keep that cap room so that if another team trys to fuck us then we just give them the finger right back…with matching rights and another finger…..
I still maintain Vladimir Konstantinov got what he deserved...If you can't handle that then kiss my ass......
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
No poaching!
Our management tends to take RFAs past July 1st (as they’re doing now) to take all the time in the world to evaluate contracts, plan ahead, and structure the salaries so the organization stays tight and payroll stays low. Next year is a red-letter offseason where the Blues need to sign a lot of RFAs, and if they happen to poach an RFA this year they won’t be able to use the “slow and steady pace” that built us a cheap team with young, skilled talent; instead, they’ll be racing against the clock and having to deal with surprise raises from teams that are willing to poach from a poacher (poachers poaching poachers). It’s worst case scenario, but it’s the fear that’s probably running through JD’s veins as his accountants crunch the contract numbers.
I don’t think the Blues are even interested in FAs and RFAs right now. This seems like the final test-year of the rebuild, where the weight is placed solely on the young players to step up their game as the top-lines, pairings, and starter positions. After this year, Brewer will be gone and Pietrangelo and Cole will be coming in, with Tarasenko possibly making a surprise visit to the NHL. The kids are going to have to grow up in time to welcome the rookies in next year, and to prove their worth when contract negotiations come around. I think if the Blues could’ve gotten Kovalchuk they would’ve, but as of now they’re sticking with what they’ve got to see if it’s worth as much as they think it is.
Management is throwing down the gauntlet with the youngsters, and free agents of any kind will only be added onto the Top 6 line-up if management thinks the team is good enough on its own to be worthy of risk-spending (and, of course, if we find new investors).
by russkidan on Jul 13, 2010 5:24 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree
The kids need to grow up before we fully understand what we have on the team.
Rec,d like Steinbrenner’s heart.
by Bleedbluecp2 on Jul 13, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
For his players he did.
For his managers……..not so much. ;)
St. Louis Blues. St. Louis Cardinals. Denver Broncos. Univ of Denver hockey and lacrosse. Colorado Mammoth and Colorado Outlaws lacrosse.
+++If the Cards trade Miller I just might have to become a Rockies fan+++
by HockeyHippie on Jul 14, 2010 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions
George is in the afterlife
firing Billy Martin as we surf…
Let's go Blues!!!
by Milo. on Jul 14, 2010 6:05 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
word is he....
tried to fire St Peter when he got to the Pearly Gates….
I still maintain Vladimir Konstantinov got what he deserved...If you can't handle that then kiss my ass......
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
This just in:
Steinbrenner just re-hired Billy Martin.
Let's go Blues!!!
by Milo. on Jul 15, 2010 6:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree. Stay away from poaching.
We have to many good guys that we could have snatched up in retaliation. There are still scorers in free agency (Frolov) and via trade (Gagne). I would hate to see someone come in and snatch up Oshie or Backes or something like that. There is just to much at risk, so I say stay away from it. Although I do still have to laugh at the Hawks. They will be in cap hell for for a LONG time. :-D.
Barret Jackman is my hero.
Fueled. These new shores burn. Shadow, my sweet shadow, to you I look no more.
Hehe - the Hawks think this offseason is bad
For the 2011-2012 year, they have only 10 players signed at approximately $47.5 million. That’s $10 million for 10 more players – if they want zero substitutes.
I don't care either way . . .
which is why I voted Yes. Other teams are going to do it at The Note’s expense if their cap situation turns into Beirut-like crazy form (See Blackhawks, Chicago). So if you see an opportunity to sign a guy that can improve your club at a slightly-over-valued amount and it forces another team to sweat out a decision, so be it. It’s business.
Now usually you’re only going to do this if you don’t see a way you’re going to be dealing with them in the future . . . this is why I liked what the Sharks did with Hjalmarsson because, let’s face it, those two teams are NOT going to be trading pieces back and forth at any point. They’re rivals now.
So . . . yeah. Poach away. Improve your team. Piss someone off? Oh fucking well. This is hockey, not tiddlywinks.
St. Louis Game Time . . . I need another beer.
And I can also write things in 140 characters or fewer.
long winded idiocy
as a pacsifist everything i know about organized war i learned from risk. i think those who believe this is an inaccurate way to llearn executive warfare just suck at risk.
hmmm read and study “the art or war”, \go to west point or play a board game for money and pretty much pick up the exact same knowlege? quick someone hand me 5 dice!
on this rfa topic i am in a bid draft baseball league and have been forever. I think hayes was president during our first draft and rutherford (or ruthy as we called him) threw out tommy bond at 3 cents. those who have never done a bid draft but love roto sports are like people who think they know what tuna taste like but refuse to try “sushi” . every freaking bid draft is different and the throw out and bid strategies involve “poaching”
it is to this end i will try to speak. poaching is baiscally what you really try to do. what how you do it falls into a few categories
1) make your enemy spend his limited resources while maintaining you own financial flexibility
2) assuring salary normalcy by refusing to let players you are mostly uninterested in go for well under their market value
3) never assume that in pushing your oponnents money buttons you wont get stuck with the player and his bill
4) anytime another owner thinks he knows how you like, how instantly develope a dislike for that plauyer. screw loyalty, this is war. give me my 5 dice and let someone else get price fielder this season.
so in this sense, i think the whole rfa thing is a farce. the deal is not to get the player you bid on, the system is designed so that you don’t get the person you place a rational bid on. the system is there to tick off the other team and make their owner fire one of his illegal groundskeepers or perhaps give up that monek shit coffee for something slightly less exotic for a month.
A strong anvil fears no hammer
by Childhood Trauma on Jul 14, 2010 2:54 PM CDT reply actions
monek shit coffee
was suppoised to be monkey shit coffe.
i.e. http://www.animalcoffee.com/
A strong anvil fears no hammer
by Childhood Trauma on Jul 14, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
The best part of wakin' up
is dookie in your cup…
Let's go Blues!!!
by Milo. on Jul 15, 2010 6:32 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
no restricted free agents!
With all the young players that we have like, oshie, berglund, pietrangelo, and others that will be future restricted free agents, it would be insane to piss teams off that have cap space that would just screw us, like we did to the canucks, after the backes incident. Also after the whole stevens incident, i really dont think the blues should give away prospects, even if it is for a young player.
I think Hjalmarsson
Was not what the Sharks really wanted . Yes they went after him because they knew the Hawks would match it and it would put the Hawks back in Cap hell .
What they are really counting on is Neimi getting a big reward from arbitration say 4 /5 Million the Hawks will not be able to do it and down swoop the Sharks to steal him away .
The Sharks then sit pretty with Nitti and Neimi in goal and they get revenge on the Hawks for beating them out of a trip to the finals . Plus hurt the Hawks chances for next year .
Pure EVIL you have to love it
Show me the CUP
Bobby isn't being low-balled
It’s contradictory to say the Ducks are “low-balling” Bobby Ryan when in the next sentence you contest that $5mil/year for a 35-goal scorer is pricey.
Bobby wants a contract that will take him to UFA as quickly as possible.
The Ducks were willing to overpay because he has a high ceiling: $5mil for 5 years.
When he said he wanted 4 years instead, the Ducks dropped the salary to $4.6.
Bobby isn’t compromising and it’s getting frustrating for the fans because he tells the media he wants to stay a Duck and is willing to accept less pay then Getzlaf (who is probably underpaid).
Something’s gotta give. I think eventually it will be the Ducks who will give him 4 years at $5 mil and I’d be okay with that.

by 





















