Blues Fire Head Coach, Keep Assistants: Probably Not the Best Idea

by averagejoe on Nov 7, 2011 12:01 PM CST

Stop me if you've heard this before, but the Blues are going to make a coaching change and Brad Shaw and Ray Bennett will be kept on as assistants.

Bennett and Shaw joined Blues in the 2006 season. Shaw was hired in the summer of 2006 under current head coach Mike Kitchen. Bennett joined the staff the day after Andy Murray was hired. On Sunday night, the Blues fired Davis Payne and named Ken Hitchcock the new man. Shaw and Bennett were kept on as assistants.

It is utterly mind boggling to me that these two men have jobs. Shaw has been here for five-plus seasons and now four head coaches. Bennett is on coach No. 3. The Blues seem to have no problem changing the head man, but man are they loyal to the Lieutenants. Shaw and Bennett are made of Teflon.

Can anyone explain this me? The Blues head coach is in charge of the operation, but doesn't get to choose his assistants? It's almost like the assistants would be more loyal to the men upstairs (not God) than to to Davis Payne.

In football, the coach and coaching staff are one. If you fire the HC, you're firing the OC, the DC and everyone down to the water boy. Very rarely do guys stay on staff.

Payne's dismissal is seen by many as the direct result of a sluggish start by just about every key players and, once again, poor overall team play. The Blues are taking shifts off, having long stretch of lackadaisical play, and piss poor special teams. Wanna take a wild guess at what Shaw and Bennett do? Shaw has been in charge of the PK, Bennett has worked with the power play.

Let's look deeper into those numbers.

The power play since Bennett joined the team:

2006-07: 12.1 percent, 29th in the league
2007-08: 14.1 percent, 30th in the league
2008-09: 20.5 percent, 8th in the league*
2009-10: 16.9 percent, 20th in the league
2010-11: 18.6 percent, 10th in the league
2011-12: 7.5 percent, 30th in the league

Wanna know why this asterisk* is there? That was the year Andy Murray very publicly took control of the power play.

What we have here is a power play that pretty awful on regular basis. The talent level of this team is closer to the 10th-ranked team, yet it's playing like the worst PP in the league. You remember how bad those first two years were? There's no reason for this team to play like that.

The penalty kill is actually a little better, but far from perfect.

2006-07: 80 percent, 25th in the league
2007-08: 84.4 percent, 7th in the league
2008-09: 83.8 percent, 3rd in the league
2009-10: 86.8, 1st in the league
2010-11: 81.7, 18th in the league
2011-12: 73.8, 27th in the league

The first year was bad but then a few things happened: Roman Polak, Jay McClement and Mike Weaver. Those three players, along with admittedly a few others, were integral to the No. 1 PK unit. Weaver was left to go elsewhere and McClement struggled after his breakthrough 2009-10 season. He was dealt to Colorado and now the Blues PK is a mess.

It's been suggested that the Blues were tuning Payne out. After fewer than 140 games behind the bench, the players had enough of this current coach and wanted a new one. That's pretty awful, but whatever. If you buy that, how can you buy the fact that Shaw and Bennett still have jobs. Only one player has been around longer than Shaw and Bennett and that's Barret Jackman. If Payne's message is stale after 140 games, how fresh is the message from the Dynamic Duo after more than 400 games?

And don't even get me started on Corey Hirsch.

Shaw and Bennett have been around for too long and have just one playoff showing. The Blues have been a franchise stuck in this awful zone of not being good enough to make the playoffs but not being good enough to draft highly. I'm probably overstating how much impact Shaw and Bennett have on the team, however, it's obvious the Blues first move is to always blame the coach.

Why not look a little deeper at the bench?

Four coaches since the start of the 2006-07 season is unacceptable. The Blues front office is simply ignoring the deeper problems and just going for the surface—the quickest, easiest fix.

The point is, we can argue all we want about Davis Payne. Personally I think he deserved this whole season. Last year, his only full season, was injury plagued and the Blues were only 10 points out. With a better roster, and a favorable schedule coming up, Payne should have been given a chance to right the ship.

However, I can see why the move was made. The players need motivated and need a new boss. A change was made and the Blues decided to fire Payne.

The problem is, he shouldn't have been the only one.

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Comments

As I said before, this is the only thing all Blues fans will agree.

The assistants have to go. As fans we differ on a lot of opinions, but I would say we all agree the assistants have overstayed their welcome.

by mulax6 on Nov 7, 2011 12:27 PM CST reply actions

It's absurd that they haven't been.

When you have a head coach HAVING to wrest control of the special teams away from the coach responsible, that’s a sign that the coach isn’t doing something right. Factor in the fact that these two have seen four coaches parade by, and come on. It’s pretty obvious that if things don’t change under new coaches that it’s the rest of the peanut gallery having problems as well.

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by hildymac on Nov 7, 2011 3:53 PM CST up reply actions

I really thought the assistants were going to go first.

I got to some internet tonight and my jaw dropped when I saw that headline. I seriously though one of these guys were going to go first. If Payne isn’t really getting to the players than it’s understandable I guess. It’s a shitty deal for Payne, honestly it’s likely not all his fault.

by bleedinblue13 on Nov 7, 2011 10:12 PM CST up reply actions

Shouldn't the assistants go first?

That’d make sense to me. Then again, I never played hockey, only watched it on tv and listened to it on the radio.

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by Paperwork Ninja on Nov 7, 2011 12:30 PM CST reply actions

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express..

But it wasn’t last night.

PC Load Letter? What the fuck does that mean?

by DanGNR on Nov 7, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions

I agree.

Ever since I’ve been a season ticket holder, I’ve seen the team’s PP resemble hockey’s equivalent of the LA Lakers: one guy with the puck while everybody else watches him. It seems as if the scheme is only designed to get that cross the box pass for the one-timer. So the half-board guys stay where they are waiting for that perfect pass, the point men man the point, and the remaining skater handles and distributes the puck.

If I can see that from section 304 as a casual fan, I bet the rest of the NHL coaches with their video can as well, and they will probably take steps to stop it. Yet the Blues still do it.

We have two of the best young puck-moving defensemen in the league. Yet we struggle against a hard cycle that defends the boards, because that’s where we clear the puck. No breakout strategy, no defense to offense transition. Again, this is from a casual fan standpoint.

Is it a failure of coaching or execution? In many ways, if it’s a failure of execution, you can argue that it’s a coaching failure as well. It was a good enough reason to fire Payne.

Just sayin’…

Now, if I can see that

by The Goalie Guy on Nov 7, 2011 12:43 PM CST via mobile reply actions

A one timer would be fine actually, if they'd shoot it as a one timer.

But the Blues one timer is as follows:

Pass to “one timer player” bounces a bit, the “one timer player” passes it back.
The pass returns to said “one timer player.” The “One timer player” receives the one timer puck.
The “One timer player” then proceeds to settle puck in front of him. Looks up at the goalie to pick his
target, (The goalie then settles in square to the “one timer player”), the “one timer player” finally winds up
and shoots the puck on goal hoping for a tip, or otherwise, missing the goalie, but going into the net.

Seems about right, yes?

PC Load Letter? What the fuck does that mean?

by DanGNR on Nov 7, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions

you forgot

this powerplay set piece we do all the time

pass to the side boards and the puck is immediately returned to the left point. from left point to right point, back to left, back to right, bobbled comes outside the zone. (we do have the "pass picked off to start an odd man shorthanded rush option available most nights)

And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.

by Childhood Trauma on Nov 7, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions

I was speaking purely on a strategic basis...

If the players on the ice fuck up the execution… that’s a different matter, but the idea behind strategy is to give your team a tactical advantage that might turn into a real one on the scoreboard. It’s just that other teams’ PK against the Blues seems geared to stop that, and they get a deflection on the cross-box pass that usually results in a non-opportunity for a one-timer, or, since everybody is standing still, an easy clearing opportunity.

by The Goalie Guy on Nov 7, 2011 1:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

The only way this makes sense to me

is if they’ve already told Hitchcock that he can hire his own assistants, and it’s just a matter of him finding his guys and bringing them in to replace Shaw and Bennett.

That said, I’d still have much rather seen them both go with Payne, even if that left a temporary assistant coaching void. I’d rather Hitchcock take over the special teams and goaltending assignments for now.

by Perrowned on Nov 7, 2011 1:24 PM CST reply actions

hitch inhereted and kept

his stars assist (jarvis and rick wilson)

had new coaches in philly (fleming and hartsburg) who both left half way through his tenure

and slitt the difference in columbus with gorf murphy being a long time coach he kept, gary agnew being an “associate coach” for the half year he started at then moving to assistant and claude noel being new

And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.

by Childhood Trauma on Nov 7, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

It would have been

cool if they could have hired Hitchcock and made Payne an assistant. There’s about 1000 things that wouldn’t work with that, including having a jealous former head coach bashing heads with the new guy, but i’d pay to see how that would work out.

by bleedblue942 on Nov 7, 2011 4:24 PM CST reply actions

re: Payne as assistant

Payne said in an interview on the XM channel that there is a possibility he stays within the Blues organization, so who knows.

by Perrowned on Nov 7, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions

yeah i saw that..

although i doubt it’d be as an assistant coach. that probably wouldn’t be the way to go.

by bleedblue942 on Nov 7, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions

andy murray

~~stayed~~ was being paid so folded blues laundry or something for a while

And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.

by Childhood Trauma on Nov 7, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions

Looks like this made it to Puck Daddy

even referencing AverageJoe by name, congrats

Puck Headlines: Sid Crosby return ‘possibility’; Blues coach fallout

by Perrowned on Nov 7, 2011 4:24 PM CST reply actions

Special teams are clearly the Blues' biggest problem.

With a league-average power-play, the Blues would have scored 4 more goals.
With a league-average penalty kill, the Blues would have surrendered 4 fewer goals.
With league-average special teams, the Blues would be +5 in goal differential, not -3. That would be the third-best GD in the West, and would almost certainly have translated to 3-4 more points in the standings.

I don’t understand why the assistants primarily responsible for such abysmal numbers are retained while the coach is canned. About the best I can hope for is that other assistants are being interviewed, and that Fatcock can give them the short haircut with a single phone call to Army.

by BleedBlue42 on Nov 7, 2011 4:53 PM CST reply actions

payne was quoted

and for what it may have been worth he was completely corrected,

he coached a bruatl sced (and was, even with crap out of halak for most of the streach, 1 game below .500) portion and was about to hit a second where the blues should have mad significant point headway.

why not at least give him this homestand? think something else must be going on, that trigger was fast and deadly and the target was payne and payne alone

And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.

by Childhood Trauma on Nov 7, 2011 5:50 PM CST up reply actions

hmm no worries everyone! the powerplay is fixed!

Hitchcock said it would take one practice to fix the power play, which misses the speed of injured forward Andy McDonald and is last in the NHL. He’s coached forward Jamie Langenbrunner with the Stars, worked with Stewart and defenseman Alex Pietrangelo and Carlo Colaiacovo with the Canadien national team

wooooo

And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.

by Childhood Trauma on Nov 7, 2011 6:11 PM CST reply actions

In All Seriousness Though...

Listening to Hitchcock on KFNS now, and I’m pleasantly surprised so far. I was skeptical at best initially upon hearing the news, but having heard how much prep he’s been doing, I think he’s really excited about this opportunity and that he’s not this same old-school style coach/strict disciplinarian he used to be. He clarified his statement and said that the PP unit needs to work on the powerplay like the other good teams do it… you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. He just has to get them to execute.

The jury’s still out for me, so I’ll wait until the end of the homestand to see how I starting to feel about this.

by Cole Youngner on Nov 7, 2011 6:29 PM CST up reply actions

i agree

i heard that interview too, and like you i went from skeptical to impressed…or at least encouraged. actions speak louder than words but im slightly more comforted. i look forward to seeing these slight changes in the blues game play.

by bleedblue942 on Nov 7, 2011 8:34 PM CST up reply actions

It sounds like

he’s done a lot of investigation on how to handle younger guys. Even as far as talking to coaches from minor league teams recently and even other sport coaches.
It will definitely be interesting if nothing else.

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by luvhockey on Nov 7, 2011 9:13 PM CST up reply actions

Oh, they'll be well prepared

He’s a preparation freak and always has been. They will probably do better. (They were probably going to do better with or without a coaching change.)

Personally I fear how many casualties there will be in the process, and what will be left after he or they burn out.

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by Dominik on Nov 8, 2011 12:33 AM CST up reply actions

When asked for comment afterwards, the players said this:

“Holy shit, the puck is supposed to go INTO the net? Fuck, we thought a ‘power play’ was a two-minute passing drill.”

by BleedBlue42 on Nov 7, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions

I'll only get behind this hiring on one condition:

That Hitchcock takes over the power play, tells Shaw to go eat cock and the power play improves.

That being said, all of Shaw, Hirsch and Bennett should have been fired before Payne was fired.

I honestly DID see a coaching change coming, but I did not expect it to be this quickly and I CERTAINLY did not expect Payne to be the first to go, considering who the real culprits are.

I sure hope this works out for the best, but is anyone getting the vibe that this is Berry/Keenan all over again, except as an in-season move and not an off-season move? I hope I’m wrong. I really do.

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by Donut King on Nov 7, 2011 8:17 PM CST reply actions

As I said last night...

…I don’t care which of the assistants goes, as long as it’s not Scott Mellanby.

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

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by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 7, 2011 8:22 PM CST up reply actions

Corey Hirsch

Needs to stop tweeting so much, get his head out of his ass which is simultaneously stuck up his smart phone, and do some god damn coaching

by Cole Youngner on Nov 7, 2011 10:06 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed...

Let Hitchcock take over, and let these guys be there for other duties. I feel like there aren’t just asst. coaches readily available. Armstrong had to have thought about replacing them, but he isn’t just going to throw randos in. Now that he got his guy in Hitch, he may let Hitchcock take the reigns and eventually bring in his own people…it’s a possibility at least. May just be me, but I get the feeling that more coaching changes are forthcoming

by Cole Youngner on Nov 7, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions

Should I expect a trade for Parise next

IMHO they were to quick to name Backes the captain. They were to quick to make Halak a 5 year resident. They were to late to pick up a experienced coaching staff. They brought up Bergie and Oshie to quickly. They still have a first round stud that with all indications will stay put in Russia.
I don’t believe Hitchcock is the answer but it’s a nice step(which in that case this baby should be walking just fine). We stumbled out of the gate and that in some part is fine with me. New players, new lines, and a few injuries that can be expected. I do think at the end of the day it makes the team more marketable not more competitive. Some one needs to crack a whip in that locker room or grab a whistle to see who’s committed and who isn’t Ala Brooks.

Why is patience a virtue and procrastination a sin...I mean whats wrong with patiently procrastionating?

by Go_Blues on Nov 7, 2011 11:58 PM CST via mobile reply actions

What ''indications'' do you see that Tarasenko will ''stay in Russia?''

"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."

-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851

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by Tomorrows Blues on Nov 8, 2011 6:04 AM CST up reply actions

After some time to digest

I’m all for this move.
Hitchcock apparently isn’t liked by some posters here, but I have no beefs with him.
He has a nice track-record. And I can see him taking the Blues to a cup more than I could see Payne or Murray.

I think there will be some more shaking up, however.
Maybe not anything earth-shattering, but certainly some examples will be made of some players. Management needs to put their foot down and hammer home the message that the players have to respect the coach and do as they’re told.

To me it isn’t a coaching problem. You could get Scotty Bowman in to coach and some of the players still just wouldn’t listen. They had a hard-ass in Murray and that didn’t work.

Management said, ok, let’s try someone nicer. Enter Payne. That didn’t work.

It’s like parenting. You can’t be a friend to your kids, as much as you might want to. You have to be a parent. There needs to be structure, discipline, consequences.

Payne couldn’t stay as coach because for whatever reason the players tuned him out. Management saw it and decided to address the smoke before it turned into a fire.

So we go back to the hard-ass coach, even if it is likely to create a more defensive-minded, slightly boring team. Would you rather win boring games or lose a thriller?

I also believe that if Hcock comes in and the Blues start winning, the offensive play/creativity will be given a longer leash. The reason we are seeing such a crappy dump and chase style is because they have to stick to the basics with this team. Like a pitcher with a 3-0 count, they have to just rear back and throw a strike. They have to be able to throw a strike without thinking. The Blues have to play the basics without thinking. Only after they have learned the basics can they proceed to the next step.

In the end, I want wins. I want playoffs. I want a Cup. I [still] have faith.

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by Mars on Nov 8, 2011 12:26 AM CST reply actions

the players

if they have stop listening, tuned out what 5 coaches in 7 years? and payne in under 3 months. listen harder.

i am sure there are people against hitch and for him, but me? i’m to the point where the coaching treadmill needs to slow down (and i wasnt a few years back- but 2 more coaches on the ash pile and i am starting to take notice)

you want to know what is scaring me? yea yea yea this team drafts character over talent blah blah blah. where is it? minor concern, cos didnt they just run through the fifth coach of their regime? that is a single indvidual, most of them with quite a track record, how are they failing to consitantly pick one that suits the team? if the leadership can’t pick a coach, what makes em think they can pick a draftee, or a captain, or a ~~marketing slogan~~ anything else?

you know what, just bloody hand the job to macinnis and or hull and be done with it, then go to the media, throw up your presidential and general manager hands and say “i’ve told them what to do- they just won’t do it”

And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.

by Childhood Trauma on Nov 8, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions

dude wtf..i thought the assistants heads would be axed also.

by theredmonster on Nov 8, 2011 6:39 AM CST reply actions

i looked

cos someone asked, and i do trivia, it is actually suprisingly common for coaches to inherited the assistants from the just fired head coach.

seems to be more often, the assistants are fired OR the head coach, for some reason a complete overall isnt as common as it is in other sports.

And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.

by Childhood Trauma on Nov 8, 2011 1:23 PM CST up reply actions

Always late to the party, but I’ll throw in my two cents. I agree with the crux of this article. I still don’t think we’ve seen the full impact of this move yet. My bet is that they are oustered in the coming weeks. They are certainly feeling the pressure and will have to show quantifiable improvement to remain. I am certain Hitchcock has a shortlist of potential assistants.

This will not happen but…with what Payne said yesterday, wouldn’t it be funny if he became one of the assistant coaches?

by NaJaKwa on Nov 8, 2011 9:27 AM CST reply actions

It'd be a serious demotion to be sure.

If getting the promotion from AHL head coach to NHL head coach is a big step, wouldn’t getting demoted to assistant coach be like going from Chief Operating Officer to Executive Intern?

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by Paperwork Ninja on Nov 8, 2011 9:32 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, but one

by NaJaKwa on Nov 8, 2011 10:12 AM CST reply actions

*shakes fist at mouse
Yeah, but it’d be one that he’d most likely experience with any other team in the league. It is not going happen anyways, so this is a futile exercise.

by NaJaKwa on Nov 8, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions