Tuesdays With Hildy: The Great Ref Conspiracy
I've never been a fan of NHL officiating. You can say as much as you want that hockey's a high speed sport and that you can't possibly catch everything. While that's true, the things that you do see could at least me consistently called. Interference called on Matt D'Agostini last night apparently looked different than a Stars player interfering with T.J. Oshie (NBC tried to state that the ref's back was turned, but the replay I saw showed the ref looking in that general direction the whole time). Phantom calls like the extra two on Scott Nichol after his fight were a bit odd. On top of that, you have what appear to be great discrepancies in the number of penalties called between the Blues and their opponents. It's enough to give a conspiracy theorist a happy.
While the Blues' fan base doesn't have a Smoking Man (though we do have a Towel Boy) who thinks everything is just a great conspiracy because Gary Bettman hates us, people do wonder what's up with the calls. Sometimes that's legit, sometimes no. A good example of legit was the game that Ian Cole got called for a hit to the head of Justin Abdelkader while Pavel Datsyuk got nothing for an elbow to the face of Barret Jackman.
Honestly, I wish I could go through and cite every occurrence of things that've drawn the ire of fans, but I realize that it's probably in the site's best interest to keep this short. I'll just highlight David Backes' hit on Alexandre Burrows the other night (via spectr17):
People were upset about the boarding penalty called. I wasn't thrilled either, but not because there was a penalty, but because Backes put himself in a situation where a penalty could be called on him. You can't do that so close to overtime -- it's really a poorly advised idea to do that period -- and Backes probably could have approached the hit differently. Whether or not Backes intended that to be a board, it doesn't matter. The only intent refs care about is the one to blow.
Is this, and other questionable calls, evidence of the fact that the league wants the Blues to fail? That they favor other teams? While there's no doubt that some teams bring in the dough more than others -- Detroit, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, and Boston come to mind -- is there really a guy on high telling the refs that they need to throw the game in favor of those teams, and that's why they don't get the stuff called on them? Or is there a tendency for other teams to not put themselves in a situation where that penalty can be called in the first place? Reputation plays a lot into the refs: if you constantly put yourself out there as a team who plays on the edge, you're going to get stuff called on you.
What do you guys think? Does the NHL (and Brad Lee) hate the Blues, or do we need to start playing with a smarter edge?
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Scott Nichol got five for fighting
and two for throwing Leprebombs. “Shoore an’ I’m gonna punch ya so hard in the face yer Lucky Charms’ll feel it, boyo!” He was channeling Leprechaun rage there, regardless of whether or not he’s actually Irish. That rage is what caused him to lose his footing and have Dowell land on him.
Leprechaun rage. It cuts both ways.
Let's Go Blues!
Support your local NAHL team. Seriously.
by Paperwork Ninja on Jan 17, 2012 12:41 PM CST reply actions
Every team in every sport thinks the refs are against them, you forget or don't notice the calls that favor you unless they are absolutely huge
And even then sometimes you forget them, but you remember every little call that goes against you. Whether its inconsistent safe/out on tag calls in baseball, inconsistent boarding calls in hockey, inconsistent holding/pass iterference calls in football. Yes, the refs in hockey arethe most inconsistent so you here about them the most, but calls never “favor” a team. The fact of the matter is they always even out. Only did the bad ref in the NBA throw games as a red a few years back and he was badly exiled for it. The only one you’ve ever heard about being badly exiled for something means that it happens rarely. The refs aren’t “against” the Blues or any other team. If you want to complain about officiating just being flat out bad that’s fine, likely true. If you want to complain about the refs being against the Blues then you are being incorrect and annoying while making yourself look paranoid an our fanbase look dumb.
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 17, 2012 1:57 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Hear about them*
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 17, 2012 1:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
if your hear for most gameday threads
it gets pointed out when we get a call that wasnt deserved… so I kinda skimmed your post there, but when we complain theres some hard evidence and I know the folks on this site are never afraid to admit when the other team got jobbed…we will take it but the calls happen against the blues more times then for
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
Oh I know, And anyone will be reactionary and see thing during a game thread anyway
What I was answering was that the post questions if the refs were against the Blues, not only is that not true, but having a post that acts like it is on the main page doesn’t look very good either. That’s all I was saying. I have. I problem complaining that a bad call was bad, especially at the time
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 17, 2012 5:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If you're referring to this post...
…I think it’s fairly clear that I don’t think it’s on the refs.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
by hildymac on Jan 17, 2012 5:37 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
But I do t think that was projected well
Even if you meant that
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 17, 2012 7:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Do I think the referees are against the Blues?
No.
Do I think the league and referees protect certain teams and players? Absolutely. Whether they do it intentionally or unintentionally, it definitely happens. You only have to look at the Ian Cole/Pavel Datsyuk situation to see that. Datsyuk won the Lady Byng four times! There’s noooooo way he could get his little elbow all the way up near Barret Jackman’s head! Can you imagine Babcock’s reaction if the league suspended Datsyuk? He would’ve blown a gasket.
I am The One Who Shall Remain Avatar-less.
People were upset about the boarding penalty called. I wasn’t thrilled either, but not because there was a penalty, but because Backes put himself in a situation where a penalty could be called on him. You can’t do that so close to overtime — it’s really a poorly advised idea to do that period — and Backes probably could have approached the hit differently. Whether or not Backes intended that to be a board, it doesn’t matter. The only intent refs care about is the one to blow.
Conversely, on a borderline call (and it certainly was) I would argue the refs could exercise a bit of judgement there and let the period end. 19 seconds to go until OT and they make this call? It wasn’t textbook boarding in the least; Burrows was reaching for a puck that was to the left and ahead of him and he was overpowered by Backes. Say what you will about Backes-he plays hard all the time and was trying to get the puck out of his zone any way possible.
Is this, and other questionable calls, evidence of the fact that the league wants the Blues to fail? That they favor other teams? While there’s no doubt that some teams bring in the dough more than others — Detroit, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, and Boston come to mind — is there really a guy on high telling the refs that they need to throw the game in favor of those teams, and that’s why they don’t get the stuff called on them? Or is there a tendency for other teams to not put themselves in a situation where that penalty can be called in the first place?
Officiating has absolutely nothing to do with individual markets and revenue. I don’t see how anyone could possibly make that connection. This kind of conspiracy theory is purely psychological-rarely do the perpetrators acknowledge otherwise borderline calls that went in their team’s favor. So no, not at all. The Blues have been jobbed by officiating equally as much or as little as every other team. Some players/teams get undisciplined under pressure and as a result, losses abound and excusing start pouring in.
We’re very fortunate to have intelligent players under the guidance of a damn smart coach.
This says what I tried to say earlier only much better
Thank you
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 17, 2012 5:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly.
To think that the league protects their cash cows is a bit much.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
by hildymac on Jan 17, 2012 5:38 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
To be blunt
Conversely, on a borderline call (and it certainly was) I would argue the refs could exercise a bit of judgement there and let the period end. 19 seconds to go until OT and they make this call? It wasn’t textbook boarding in the least; Burrows was reaching for a puck that was to the left and ahead of him and he was overpowered by Backes.
I absolutely hate this mentality. If the refs see a penalty, they see a penalty; the time of a game shouldn’t even begin to enter their mind. Consistency across the whole 60 minutes should be the goal.
Not afraid to nitpick
I absolutely hate this mentality. If the refs see a penalty, they see a penalty; the time of a game shouldn’t even begin to enter their mind. Consistency across the whole 60 minutes should be the goal.
And I would agree with you if the called infraction wasn’t borderline.
In 19 seconds, the game goes to a 4v4 format. By calling a penalty on a play that wasn’t (in my opinion) a clear cut infraction, you’ve now given the team with the man advantage almost a full two minutes in a 4v3 setting.
Additionally, not every called penalty is clear cut. That’s why seemingly obvious calls go uncalled and borderline infractions end up in a power play. My beef is, as a ref, you have taken what wasn’t textbook boarding, and with 20 seconds left in regulation, greatly influenced a game.
Unfortunately, refs consider time and circumstance when they make calls. I’m not saying those factors are overwhelmingly influential, but it happens. In this instance, I’d prefer they’d let it go at even strength-its not like it was blatant (in my mind).
Cheers
The refs have been poor... period...
Usually, in seasons past their have been bad calls against and for the Blues in a given game or a given stretch.
This season, he has seemed that the calls are mostly for or mostly against the Blues. Because of this, it looks like we are getting screwed over a given stretch or over a given game.
Usually it is… “Oh, that was a ‘make-up’ call for the earlier shitty one”.
Now it is… “These refs hate the Blues.”
It is what it is and in the end the good and bad will even itself out somewhat.
Even though I will continue to bitch when a horrible call is made.
Its weird... half the year my blood is red... but then the other half... it's blue... hm...
That first part might not make sense...
In seasons past, basically in game 1 there were 2 bad calls for and 2 bad calls against. In game 2 there were 4 bad calls for and 3 against… and so on…
This season… game 1, 4 bad calls against… game 2, 5 bad calls against… game 3, 3 bad calls again… game 6, 2 bad calls for… game 7, 4 bad calls for…
Its weird... half the year my blood is red... but then the other half... it's blue... hm...
As I said in the GDT the other day
If you watch basketball, you’ll appreciate NHL refs.
Not afraid to nitpick
thank god the refs suck
otherwize their rage against the blues as obvious as it must be would result in some sort of standings effect
And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.
by Childhood Trauma on Jan 17, 2012 5:48 PM CST reply actions
i don’t think the nhl hates the blues. i do tend to agree that certain teams get preferential treatment. refs miss calls and make soft calls; but it goes both ways. we’re the 10th most penalized team(with boston being most penalized and vancouver above us as well; those being recently “favored teams”). additionally, we’re 13th in hits and play a fairly physical game. and generally the more physical you play, the closer to the edge your play thus you might expect a few more calls to go against you.
Tim Peel.....
I rest my case
I still maintain Vladimir Konstantinov got what he deserved...If you can't handle that then kiss my ass......
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
by dablues7 on Jan 17, 2012 7:14 PM CST via Android app reply actions
I don't know
I think that certain teams do get the benefit of the doubt on occasion. Look at that malkin call from the playoffs a couple years ago. He CLEARLY instigates the fight after the point where he should have gotten suspended and nothing happens. They got tossed for fighting and end of story.
I’m not saying the NHL is trying to beat the Blues down, but I definitely think you can make a pretty convincing argument for preferential treatment in some situations.
Barret Jackman is my hero.
In remembrance of Pavol Demitra and all our fallen Blues brethren.
Anyone who honestly believes in a conspiracy against the Blues or any other team
Should kill themselves, as they’re clearly too stupid to live.
Secrets are hard to keep, and if word of the NHL fixing games- or even providing an edge to specific teams via officiating- got out, the fallout would cost the league tens of millions of dollars, and could result in criminal charges.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
Maybe they shouldn't kill themselves...
but yes, I follow you. There is obviously no giant conspiracy. That’s ridiculous.
Every team thinks the refs are against them and, while they make some bad calls, it is usually against both teams.
I hold here in my hand
a list of 72 card carrying anti-Blues conspirators.
Some of them are well known on ice officials, others are within the Dept of Player Safety, some have managed to get a job at Bobby’s Place, and some even edit a Blues blog.
Live in fear, as literally every single call or non-call against the Blues is part of a grand plan to coddle Datsyuk, Toews, the Sedins, and every other non-Blue who is a marquee player.
No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.
by Poor College Student on Jan 17, 2012 10:18 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
National Hockey League officials, in general, are incompetent.
If it weren’t for the existence of the National Basketball Association and their playoff tournament, I’d say NHL officials were the worst in sports. But that’s not the case, and is neither here nor there.
Of course we’re going to believe there’s a conspiracy against our team when a call doesn’t go our boys’ way. Want to know why? BECAUSE YOU’RE ROOTING FOR YOUR TEAM . . . you’re EXPECTED to act that way against a call in which you feel your team was slighted.
That said, does the consortium of NHL officials show a favorable eye toward certain players? Of Goddamn course they do. And while I would never accuse David Perron of diving (I honestly don’t think he is a diver), he is a prime example of this favoritism. The dude plays hard and can do incredible things when the puck is on his stick, and that draws calls more often than not.
Anyway, in general, the NHL needs to either hire more competent officials, do away with the second on-ice referee or do a fuckload more training in the offseason on these guys, lest the problem get worse.
Fight Club writer for the print edition of St. Louis Game Time . . . I need another beer.
The Throwdown Lowdown Report, only on The Bluenote Zone.
And I can also write things in 140 characters or fewer.
while Pavel Datsyuk got nothing for an elbow to the face of Barret Jackman.
Probably because it wasn’t an elbow, and to continue to categorize it as such despite the evidence which shows clearly that Datsyuk’s elbow does not start two inches below his shoulder is not only irresponsible, but also damaging to one’s credibility.
On top of that, you have what appear to be great discrepancies in the number of penalties called between the Blues and their opponents.
Blues penalties taken (raw count): 223
Blues’ opponents’ penalties taken: 217
GREAT DISCREPANCY: 6
Ottawa’s discrepancy: 36
Tampa Bay’s: 24
Dallas’: 26
Oh, and just because I know you’re all Curious… Detroit’s GREAT PENALTY DISCREPANCY: -4
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 7:17 AM CST reply actions
Fuck detroit
And your homeritis watch the replay youre blind if thats not an elbow
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
by DESTROYER on Jan 18, 2012 9:15 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Elbows

Now coming two inches below the shoulder….
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
OK, thanks for the pre-hit screenshot.
Now fast forward .3 seconds where the contact is actually made and his elbow is extended.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
Are you serious?
Contact is not being made at that very instant?
Didn’t realize Jackman’s face was naturally so flat.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Watch :36-:37
and tell me Datsyuk’s elbow is parallel to his body and that he didn’t make a violent motion with it.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 9:49 AM CST up reply actions
Done
Datsyuk’s elbow is parallel to his body and he didn’t make a violent motion with it.
That was easy.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
OK
I am obviously talking to someone who doesn’t know what parallel means. But let’s say I concede it wasn’t an elbow (which I’m not), it was still a head hit and the initial point of contact. You yourself said Jackman’s face was flat. Penalty and suspension should’ve been in order then, yes?
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
Datsyuk’s elbow leaves the parallel plane a full beat after impact when he straightens his arm to regain his balance. Seriously, draw a line through his back and then through his forearm through contact.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
Arguing with J.J. from Kansas about his fuck wings is completely pointless.
From what I have seen of his comments in the past (although I’ll admit it’s not a very large sample) there isn’t a single part of him that doesn’t have 100% wings bias. He absolutely refused to admit that Perron “running” Jimmy Howard was anything other than 100% Perron’s fault. He has no objective view on anything involving the wings.
Let's Go Blues
Go Pack Go
You'll Never Walk Alone
by blunatic on Jan 18, 2012 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
In all honesty, it is.
He always reminds me of a cartoon character that’s been hit in the face with a frying pan.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Your opinion is duly noted...
…but I think it’s safe to say that few people, if any, really care.
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851
http://futurenotes.blogspot.com
by Tomorrows Blues on Jan 18, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
By the way...
St. Louis’ Power Play time minus Penalty Kill time is -23 minutes and change this year… ranking us dead last in the NHL.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
Even if no elbow (which he clearly extends and hits Jackman with)
then it is an illegal check to the head. Jackman played the puck and was standing up. Datsyuk had to go out of his way to make Jackman’s head the principal point of contact that we have heard Shanahan go on and on about in his explanations. Jackman should be expecting a hit, but not one that makes his head the principal point of contact. Case closed.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
That's a valid point
But while we’re all crying about the way the game should be called, this should be a complete non-issue because the very second that Datsyuk’s shoulder is occupying the space where Jackman puts his face while admiring his own pass, the big goon should be in the penalty box for the six cross-checks he had delivered between Datsyuk and Franzen just moments prior to his comeuppance.
Case reopened, reevaluated, re-closed.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 9:49 AM CST up reply actions
You don't hit a guy in the head for cross checks
You either call him out and fight him or you give him a clean, solid check later in the game. What you are saying is that Bertuzzi’s hit on Moore was justified because of what Moore did earlier that shift.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
What you are saying is that Bertuzzi’s hit on Moore was justified because of what Moore did earlier that shift.
If you’re going to put wildly inappropriate words in my mouth, I’d prefer that you make me look slightly crazier. How about you say that I think Abraham Lincoln stole beans from the moon and cultivated an aquarium full of tiny merpeople?
Jackman put himself into a vulnerable position. If he’s not admiring his own pass, Datsyuk’s shoulder cuts him clean through the chest and he wakes up sometime in Duck Dodger’s timeline.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Lincoln didn't?
Dammit. I have to re-start that biography “Lincoln And The Mer-People!” all over again. Title change suggestion anyone?
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
and by doing so Datsyuk
still targeted the head, JJ i respect you most of the time but as I said before your homeritis is showing, and its getting pretty ignorant at this point
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
I'll give you that it very well should have been a penalty, if the game were being called correctly
… and just go back in circles to say that it should have been moot considering the previous non-calls that could have prevented the entire situation from escalating to where it did.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
the issue with the Cross checks
is moot for the shear fact that it happens every game…its up to the refs whether or not it gets excessive, but i dont know if you have ever played but if the d isnt doing it? theyre not doing their job very well, its not supposed to be easy getting into the slot, thats prime territory…bitch about something else besides cross checks, shoulder checks, elbow, he still targeted the head which is a no no even from a pussy like datsyuk
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
If the idea is that your defense should automatically be cross-checking people, then it’s probably no wonder we’re having a discussion about a supposed referee bias against St. Louis in the first place.
If the refs call the game right, then Datsyuk doesn’t retaliate. If the league suspends Datsyuk for standing up for himself in what is a hockey play, then Brian Burke calls another press conference and bitches about the rats taking over, except this time he’s right.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
This is stupid
trying to reason with a Wings fan. We will let the rest of the season play out and see who’s on top. Good day J.J.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
TWSS.
Sorry. I had to.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
HAHAHA
I almost put that in my own response… but isn’t it bad form to call out a TWSS on yourself?
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
And if Jackman put himself in a vulnerable position,
then I’m sure you can provide examples where you stood up for Cole when he hit Abdelkader when Abdelkader was admiring his own puckhandling skills across the blueline.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
I did say that I thought Cole’s suspension was longer than I thought it should have been. I really thought it would only be one game or a MAX of two, if even that. All of my comments at SB Nation are on record; it shouldn’t be hard for you to find that.
If you’re looking for me to say I think the punishments should have been equal, then keep looking. I find it laughable that you’d even imply they’re the same. Then again, you seem to think that what Datsyuk did to Jackman was the same as what Bertuzzi did to Moore, so I guess I should probably find it more sad than funny.
Besides, Abdelkader wasn’t admiring his own puckhandling skills, he was trying to gain control of a suicide pass thrown his way by Jonathan Ericsson. Let’s blame the right Red Wings player for what happened to Abdelkader there at least.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Blaming the right Red Wings player
I still blame Yzerman for most of my misfortunes in life.
It’s almost reflexive at this point. Asshole
No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.
by Poor College Student on Jan 18, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd like abdelkaders face
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
The conversation will ultimately end up nowhere
So I figured I’d add to it.
Or not add to it.
Whichever.
No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.
by Poor College Student on Jan 18, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be 7 feet tall if it wasn't for that fucker
Fuck him.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
by Mike Martin on Jan 18, 2012 6:36 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I didn't think the two hits were the same.
My point was, smartass, that if Jackman is to blame for Datsyuk’s head hunt then you also have to place blame on Moore for Bertuzzi’s retaliation. Bertuzzi wouldn’t have done that if Moore hadn’t hit Naslund. Do ya see what I’m sayin’?
I don’t blame either Jaxx nor Moore for the cheap shots they took. There are other ways, within the rulebook to get them back. You were the one blaming Jaxx for Datsyuk’s cheap shot.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
And sorry
should be NEITHER Jaxx nor Moore. My English teachers would be ashamed.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
AHHHH
should be “I blame neither Jaxx nor Moore…” mea culpa.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Except we’re talking the difference between a premeditated assault on a guy in a heated rivalry which spanned weeks and a quid-pro-quo retaliation done mere moments later.
If we want to compare things, let’s talk about the hundreds of gloved-punches that Jackman has thrown in net-front scrums over the years. Every single one of those was a retaliatory headshot (even in the cases where Jackman started it, since he was retaliating against the other guy for having the right number of chromosomes, I expect).
Cole got suspended because, as Shanahan explained, he went out of his way to ensure that the head was the principal point of contact. In the Jackman case, your boy put his face in the way of what was a good hard check.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
kinda like the difference between
trollin and being a blues fan
And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.
by Childhood Trauma on Jan 18, 2012 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
need to rewatch that vid
shanahan said it wasnt the intended point just accidental either way shanny explained it is a risky hit with either a clean result or as what happened to applicator and accidental hit to the head…youre hearing things bud
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
Note the "you have what appear to be" in that.
I never said that there was. I meant that basically you have people raising a ruckus over the calls against us and that makes it appear that there’s a discrepancy.
I also don’t think a shoulder to the face is any better than an elbow to the face. I saw it from FSMW’s camera angle as an elbow, though FSD could have shown a different one that more clearly shows it to be a shoulder. Who knows.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
I also don’t think a shoulder to the face is any better than an elbow to the face.
Except one of those claims is accurate and the other is not. You chose to go with the more incendiary of the terms and you were wrong. As for “who knows”? Anybody who’s watched the video replay and isn’t a Blues homer knows that it wasn’t an elbow.
I noted the “appears to be” part, I was just presenting some evidence to the conspiracy theorists who believe that this discrepancy is something worth “forming a happy” about.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 18, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
Hey, I'm not a homer...
… I just don’t have youtube here to re-watch it. At the time it appeared to be an elbow, but I could be wrong. I do agree with you that it shouldn’t’ve happened because Jackman should have been in the box for the cross-checking. That’s an example of how the refs don’t have it in for us. It was pretty obvious Jaxx was getting irritated about something, and frankly I probably (if I were a guy and significantly larger) would have shoved him back if the refs weren’t going to do anything about it.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Someone on the Asylum
had a series of screen captures that clearly showed the elbowing. I didn’t think it was that bad until I saw that series of pics. Straight up elbow to the chops. I’ll see if I can dig up the post. I was out of town that game and didn’t post any videos from that game, I still have it on the DVR and can pull some up if needed hildy. Datsuk, like many players know how to toss an elbow and not get caught. Gordie Howe was the master blaster with the elbows, it’s dirty and they know it.
Just a chew toy for the hockey gods
You WENT to the Asylum?
You sir, have my respect. I can’t read more than maybe two posts there, tops, without my brain leaking out of my ears.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Actually Spectr, if you have the game after that one
Blues vs Preds on the 30th, there’s a reverse angle video clip that shows that if Datsyuk’s elbow isn’t the initial point of contact it was at least what he followed through with. I believe it was during the pre-game when JK and Panger were discussing the suspension to Cole.
Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not. - Thomas Jefferson
So wait...
Red wings homer comes to the Blues site and calls all the Blues fans homers? Got it. Now go away.
I am The One Who Shall Remain Avatar-less.
I would comment on this but I don't think my IQ is low enough.
Ahhh fuck, I commented on it anyway. Damn my brain freeze.
Fight Club writer for the print edition of St. Louis Game Time . . . I need another beer.
The Throwdown Lowdown Report, only on The Bluenote Zone.
And I can also write things in 140 characters or fewer.
My bad...
That is only for home games.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 9:17 AM CST reply actions
God damn it...
meant for post above.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Been watching the zebras for many moons
and in my senile opinion they are getting worse. In the olden daze you had maybe 1 major blown call in a game or every other game for either side. Now there’s 2 or 3 per game where you just facepalm and wonder WTF game are the refs watching. And those calls are not always against the Blues, some of them BOHICA the other team and you still wonder if Andy “3 Blind Mice” Van Hellemond was their instructor at ref school. That blind SOB, no one knew what the hell he would call.
To digress a bit regarding that Backes hit, it points out our Capt has one little chink in his armor that he needs to fix, he can still be goaded. He pulled the punch into Burrish’s bread basket and I thought for sure he was going to get an extra two for that but not that time. For drama queens like Burr you just gotta smile and skate away, you can’t get sucked in. Blow them a kiss or something but you simply CANNOT retaliate, it will cost you a game and maybe a series. It’s mind over doucherockets that don’t matter. Take a number and next tome going into the corner give them an extra stride and lift. Oh wait, you can’t do that anymore in the NHL. fuck.
Just a chew toy for the hockey gods
Backes does get goaded to easy...
But I feel like he’s starting to understand that he can’t do it anymore. He definitely still does it way too often, but I think here lately he’s been controlling himself a bit better. Hopefully he will get to the point where he can just shrug it off… unless it’s Kesler and Burrows. For all I care he can fuck either of them up at the slightest mention of Kelly. God knows those shitbags deserve it.
Let's Go Blues
Go Pack Go
You'll Never Walk Alone
backes needs to go Jackman on people
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
To clarify...
… because there seems to be some confusion here thanks to my open ended questions meant to facilitate discussion, I don’t think there’s a conspiracy, and I do think that people who believe that teams are favored over others need to go tie that tinfoil hat on a bit more tightly.
When I was at the game in Nashville on December, I saw the Blues get away with about four or five obvious penalties right in front of my face. The Preds fans wondered where the call was, and I agreed with them. Not that I wanted the call, but that I expected the call on them.
I got tired last year of them “sending messages” when they were losing games, and this year I’m starting to get tired of them putting themselves in positions where borderline calls are possible. They have to wisen up a bit. Bad calls are going to happen, but they happen less if you don’t do things to create the opportunity for them to.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
by hildymac on Jan 18, 2012 10:27 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
bloody hell
the refs have gotten to hildymac.
if you need us to rescue you. blink twice and say “Detroit sucks”
And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.
by Childhood Trauma on Jan 18, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
Eh, I'm just a pragmatist.
I’m overly good at pointing out my own flaws. Sometimes that carries over to the things I like.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Speaking for myself and most, if not all, Blues fans I know personally...
We don’t think there is a CONSPIRACY against us. But we do think that for whatever reason we do get more bad calls/non calls against us than teams we play. There are definitely examples where we get the advantage in isolated incidents throughout the year, and even in entire games (I would point to the last Avs game). However, it seems on the whole, we get Bret Hart-esque screw jobs. Maybe it just seems like that because our bad calls usually seem to come at some important point in the game.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 18, 2012 1:19 PM CST reply actions
I think that the last thing you said is spot on.
People remember stuff that happens during important moments. No one remembers a delay of game call on Cola from 3 months ago, just like you don’t remember what you had for breakfast that morning. I think that there is a tendency for the Blues to get called for stuff at important moments, but I think that the team tends to put themselves in situations where they can get called for stuff in important moments.
I’m not saying that every call on the Blues is right, but I do think that any bad calls is due to speed of the game or that ref in general being an idiot.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
The Backes boarding call
My opinion is that from the position the ref calling the penalty was in, it looked like boarding. The way Burrows fell probably looked like he hit the boards first then awkwardly bent to the ice. If the ref had been positioned along the same boards the hit took place, he would have seen the hit was further from the boards than he thought and wouldn’t have called a penalty.
Fan of the Detroit Tigers, Lions and Red Wings.
I agree
There’s a saying that “Perception is reality.” Unfortunately, in this case the ref’s perception was based on his position…and he was in a bad position to see the true nature of the play.
Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not. - Thomas Jefferson
The things that drive me nuts is the inconsistency
Look at the game against Minnesota. Backes gets thrown out of half the game for coming in after Perron gets lit up in the first period. OK fine. That sets the bar. (Unsportsman + INstigator + Fighting + Misconduct, Wild get 4 minute powerplay)
Flash forward to the second period when Reaves lights up someone (I forget who) and Staubitz jumps in to go after Reaves. What does Staubitz get? Only unsportsman and fighting (Blues get 2 minute powerplay).
Its the exact same fucking situation yet it gets called remarkably different, and to a huge disadvantage for the Blues.
The misconduct was b/c Backes started it with his visor on, if I remember correctly.
But yeah, Staubitz should have gotten an instigator, and if he was wearing a visor (don’t remember – I don’t think that he was but I could be wrong) he should have gotten the misconduct as well.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Ok, there was text in this post.
WTF?
Anyways, if Staubitz was wearing a visor, you’re right – it should have been the same. Consistency goes a long way, and God forbid refs have any.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
I see text
maybe you blinked? LOL
Hockey players wear numbers because you can't always identify the body with dental records.
It is the sweet, simple things of life which are the real ones after all. Laura Ingalls Wilder
Dangit!
I think that the SBN comment system had a bit of a hiccup there when I posted.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Well Staubitz (with or without a visor) got a misconduct call anyway, so that really ISN'T the difference.
He should have gotten the 12 minutes in penalties for being the instigator. Period.
by Rich of GASL on Jan 20, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
This just in,,,,,,
It’s been confirmed, in further testing this JJ from KC can indeed give a woodpecker a headache.
Just a chew toy for the hockey gods
He is a real doucher.
Would one of us be booted off their site if we did something similar? Just wondering how sensitive they are over there.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 19, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
probably
not to mention i live here in KC, 99% of hockey fans are bandwagoners for chicago or detroit
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
I live in western Illinois
It is funny how there are soooooooooooo many Blackhawks fans these days. There are also a lot of Detroit bandwagoners too, but the Chicago fans are way worse. I have a simple test… name five players from the Blackhawks from the 90’s. Pretty simple, even for a casual fan at that time. If they even get to four I give them the benefit of the doubt. If they don’t, I quit talking to them about hockey.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 19, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm
I had more to this message…
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 19, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
I don't really just want you to know I live in western Illinois.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 19, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Nevermind
The site was really weird and chopped off the body of my initial message but then reappeared. Carry on.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 19, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Have you gone to any of the preseason games here?
Because there are TONS of Penguins fans around here too.
But I apologize for not being raised into a hockey family and finding no particular affinity for a team from a city on the other side of a state I don’t even live in.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 19, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
its not even
that its the fact that all these hockey fans here go straight for the front runners and being the penguins, red wings, and blackhawk fans proves it, theyve all won recently. its also proves that they dont support the royals or any other team unless theyre winning in this town, its pretty pathetic to see. im originally from st louis, always been a fan of the cards and blues. thick and thin.
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
Kansas City is a hell of a bandwagon town. That’s the reason every time somebody brings them up as a destination for a hockey team, I shake my head. You’d better be ready to move a winner here if you want a team to last more than three seasons.
I don’t particularly care about MLB, but I blame Royals fans for not supporting that team only slightly more than I blame Chicago fans for abandoning the Hawks during the Dollar Bill Wirtz days. Once an owner has come out and told the fans that they care more about running their sports franchise as a business than about winning games, then I don’t see a reason to help them out much. Once I see that they’re more interested in making money than even TRYING to win games, then I’m completely done. I don’t begrudge the owners any kind of penny-pinching, but what point is there in having faith in a franchise whose business model for 20 years has been “develop young talent and then trade it for the opportunity to develop more young talent”? Look at the guys who have left the Royals after getting good. The Royals get minor-league numbers at their game because they’re a glorified minor-league team run by a Wal-Mart exec who treats them like a piece of a portfolio.
Now CHIEFS fans on the other hand… yeah, those people are awful.
As for me; I’m not originally from the area either. I inherited my baseball and football teams from my father and developed a love for hockey on my own. I don’t have to answer to any of you shits about who’s a better fan or who annoys whom because the blue-blood hockey royalty feels they deserve extra credit for still liking a team when they were garbage.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 19, 2012 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with the business side of things.
That’s a part of the reason that the Braves’ attendance numbers are meh – they’re just a tax write off for whatever group owns them. Ditto with the Hawks, and formerly ditto with the Thrashers.
There’s a difference between a team going through a natural, cyclical lull (it happens, as both Detroit and Blues fans know) and having an owner like Dollar Bill flagrantly tell the fan base to fuck off.
I have a friend that got fed up with the Braves a few seasons ago once it became apparent that it was the Bobby & Chipper Old Man Hour and adopted the Red Sox because she liked the way they played. Do I consider that a bit bandwaggon-y? Yeah. Does she enjoy the sport more now that she’s watching a team whose style of ball fits her better? Yup. To each their own.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Hey now
it says kansas, not KC. There’s a difference. We don’t want him.
I am The One Who Shall Remain Avatar-less.
Crap
I just read the rest of his posts. He’s probably the guy I heckled at Gates BBQ the other day.
I am The One Who Shall Remain Avatar-less.
LMAO
good, btw classic you play rec league at all?
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
Hahaha
I haven’t been to Gates since they got shut down by the Health Department. I only eat the barbecue in Kansas City that doesn’t give you the runs.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 19, 2012 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
I looked that up
because I was curious…it got shut down 12 years ago and has since reopened with no problems. It worked out alright for us. Maybe it’s time to give it another shot?
I am The One Who Shall Remain Avatar-less.
Holy shit
has it really been that long?
Fuck I’m getting old.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 19, 2012 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
Nope
We actually just un-banned all of our previously banned trolls and changed the way we handle them. Permabans are only used for the worst of the worst now. Step out of line and you might get a timeout, but there’s only been one thing in this whole thread that would have gotten a commenter in trouble, and that’s been deleted already.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 19, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
You'l have to ask your buddy Donut King
I’m not repeating the word he used.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 19, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Aight, I can use my imagination.
Is there any way to delete your own posts on here, btw?
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 19, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
And by Mod it's grand poobah.
I can’t delete posts either, though I really wish that SB Nation would give you the option of editing/deleting your own posts. I’ve caught typos after the fact that have driven me bat-shit insane.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
OK
New to posting here and didn’t know. Just wondering in case I make a factual error like I did earlier when discussing Blues penalty minutes and I want to delete it.
by TheFlyingCavallinis on Jan 19, 2012 12:59 PM CST reply actions
Happy to help
- your friendly neighborhood doucher.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jan 19, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
I *think* you might want to change that last word to noun form.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
Well, um, that's just awkward.
I guess it’s better than being a douchee. Unless… wait…
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
by hildymac on Jan 19, 2012 4:14 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
The offending comment has been removed, I have been issued a warning.
I AM better than that. And I issue a full apology.
What you saw earlier (if anyone saw it) will not occur ever again. If it does, fucking shoot me.
Fight Club writer for the print edition of St. Louis Game Time . . . I need another beer.
The Throwdown Lowdown Report, only on The Bluenote Zone.
And I can also write things in 140 characters or fewer.
will do at work? and take your boss first? JK JK JK
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
Unfair Calls
If they are two refs that have it out for the Blues. It is Denny LaRue and Don Van Massenhoven. LaRue’s big thing against the Blues is to waive off goals that should have counted. I distinctly remember a game against Vancouver 2-3 years ago where LaRue waived off 2 goals in one game. If either play went to review the goal would have counted. Van Massenhoven just loves to calls penalties against the Blues. I think in the offseason Van Massenhoven practices making up calls. Because he has gotten really good at it.
I remember that game.
It was 06-07. And Brewbot took a retaliatory penalty late in the game after a Canuck slew-footed Sanford IN the trapezoid without taking a penalty. Such a terribly officiated piece of crap.
Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not. - Thomas Jefferson
I still think Tim Peel deserves a slot in that top suckiness in RefUsuckages.
PC Load Letter? What the fuck does that mean?
Van Massenhoven is an abomination.
There were quite a few games here where they’d announce the refs before the game and one’d be him. I braced myself for a shittily called game and was never disappointed. I remember a game where he’d call a crap penalty on one team and the other ref called penalties to make up for it on the other team all night long. That was such a slow game. Cannot imagine why.
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
SB Nation St. Louis
St. Louis Game Time - We turn the F bomb into an art form.
Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
by hildymac on Jan 21, 2012 5:49 PM CST via Android app up reply actions

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