Monday Open Thread

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Fuck Detroit.

4 months ago bradflick55 28 comments 0 recs |

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Fuck Detroit.

Also, I don’t want to cripple our team by trading for these guys, but what would it take to get Bobby Ryan or Zach Parise?

World Series Champions 2011. Unbelievable. Tony LaRussa, you will be missed.

by cj2k on Jan 23, 2012 2:06 PM CST reply actions

It would probably take a crippling trade for Parise unless Lou Lamoriello is really hard up for money.

As for Ryan… yeah, probably the same.

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by Paperwork Ninja on Jan 23, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions

In Lou We Trust did a post last week

trying to judge what it might take to nab Parise should they want to trade him. Their conclusion was:

-1 young roster player with upside
-1 quality forward prospect
- 1 1st round pick

For the Blues, that’d mean something like Berglund, Jaden Schwartz, and a number 1. Then again, if Lamoriello’s seen any of IceBerg this year, he probably wouldn’t want any part of him. If I’m Army, I’d see if I could get away with D’Ags, Jaden, and Phillip MacRae and a 1st. Unless I start to think that Tank won’t be coming over next season, in which case I might have to think twice about throwing him into the mix.

I know it's time for hockey because I've started singing "Don't Stop Believing" with the words "...born and raised in FUCK DETRIOT!!!"

by J-Mill on Jan 23, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions

I don't include Schwartz in a trade...

For a guy who probably leaves Jersey in free agency anyway.

Is willing to go to the mattresses with the lot of yous.

by Novacain on Jan 23, 2012 2:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

The Free Agency deal is spooky

I wouldn’t be comfortable with the Blues giving up a lot for him unless there was certainty that he could be re-signed. Then again, Doug Armstrong is much better at signing people than I am.

And who knows how far it would blow up if they actually bothered to talk to Parise’s agent before any of this went down? Lou’s got some experience calling the Blues out on that.

No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.

by Poor College Student on Jan 23, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions

That's the major reason why I'd look for Ryan over Parise

Much more uncertain situation. Though that’s also why the Devils asking price should be lower than the Ducks.

Is willing to go to the mattresses with the lot of yous.

by Novacain on Jan 23, 2012 2:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Indeed

But I’d bet the majority of other teams looking at the two of them see it that way, too, which puts more demand on Ryan.

If the Ducks play it right and get other teams to get into a bidding war over Ryan, it may not be any lower than Parise.

No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.

by Poor College Student on Jan 23, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions

ducks are on a good run

right now, wont be trading anyone

going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring

by DESTROYER on Jan 23, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions

That seems to be a common question.

I think you can do it, without gutting the team now or giving up any of our big 5 prospects (Tank, Jaden, Rattie, Ty, and Cole). The Blues have outstanding depth, and players who are becoming atleast decently expendable, depending on who’se asking. I’d say our list of expendable players is Berglund, Dags, Cola, and Bishop. I’d say any 3 of these 4 could probably get it done, Cola and Bishop seem like obvious inclusions, the question is if you are okay with dealing Bergie and Dagger, and if so, which one? I think Berglund/Dagger, Cola, and Bishop is a fair offer for either.

Is willing to go to the mattresses with the lot of yous.

by Novacain on Jan 23, 2012 2:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Purely hypothetical (As I tend to hate playing armchair GM unless it's absolutely clear that in no way am I competent enough to be a GM)

But if I’m Lou, Parise starts with some skeleton formula of

Young NHL Level Forward with Top 6 potential, Blue Chip prospect, NHL level talent that may or may not be playing at that level yet is young (for the sake of this, we’ll say 23 and under), and a draft pick that is inversely proportional to the sum of return of the actual players.

With that in mind, I could see any of the following being a realistic asking price:

One of the following: Berglund, Oshie, Stewart
One of the following: Tank, Schwartz, Bishop, Allen
One of the following: D’ags, Cole, Russell, Syvret

And then a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, depending on how the sum of that talent is.

Also, I would not go for any of those trades myself.

No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.

by Poor College Student on Jan 23, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions

I'd go for Berglund, Bishop, and Syvret.

Honestly, I think they’d take Cola as a replacement and a bit of an upgrade on Danny too. Would consider tossing in a 2nd as well.n

Is willing to go to the mattresses with the lot of yous.

by Novacain on Jan 23, 2012 2:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

I still wouldn't

At least not without being able to talk to the guy to see what the realistic options are in terms of re-signing him. It’s a bunch of uncertainty with the ownership deal not finalized, Oshie coming due, Stewart coming due, Perron coming due, Jackman coming due, and those are just the guys that I believe the Blues have to re-sign (barring any outrageous demands on their part).

Nevermind the fact that I’d like to see Carlo back in the note, in addition to Arnott, although I wouldn’t be upset if either of them go so long as the rest are retained.

Huskins and Langenbrunner aren’t coming back, as far as assumptions I’m willing to make.

There’s around 9 mil to get all those guys there new deals on top of what they’re earning now (They’ll all end up with raises, right?) AND retain ol’ Zach P. Now sure, you’ll shed at least some salary if the Blues trade for him, but that would put the Blues cap situation pretty damn close to the roof and I’m not sure the Blues can hold on to all the important parts in addition to Parise or Ryan.

Also, fuck Lou Lamoriello.

No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.

by Poor College Student on Jan 23, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions

How much of raises are we talking about though?

Stewart has backed himself into a corner so far this year. He might actually getting less. Jackman probably won’t get much of a raise, so that’s not much of a discussion point right now. And, to be honest, I don’t think there is a chance Cola is back. If Jack is back, our top 6 next year are Petro, Kirk, Polak, Jack, Russell, and Cole. I think we are much more likely to keep Huskins, who will be a lot cheaper, than Cola who will probably want a deal in the 2 mill a season range. To be quite blunt, If we don’t trade Cola by the deadline, I feel we let him walk.

Now Perron and Osh’s salaries are gonna go up. Probably about 3.5 mill per year for both. But taking Cola and Jamie of the books basically frees up up the cap space needed to re-sign them on the spot. So we actually could be close to coming up even.

Now, on the trading front, I think conventional wisdom says any trade we make for a Parise, Ryan, or whoever else is built around Berglund. That frees up over 2 million right there. Now there is question over ownership, but in terms of being under the cap, I don’t see much in the way of risk.

Is willing to go to the mattresses with the lot of yous.

by Novacain on Jan 23, 2012 3:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

If Stewart ends up staying on the pace he's at now, sure

I still believe he’ll end up at least getting out of his cold streak (not necessarily going on a scoring tear, but at least being a steady top 6) which will demonstrate enough of a negotiating position to get him some more. Also, if the Blues believe he has the ability to transform into the stud scorer, they might go a little longer on the contract in exchange for a little more pay, which could still be relatively low compared to what it would cost to retain him AFTER a 35-40 goal type season.

If Jackman gets to UFA status on July 1 (which I would personally believe to be a BIG mistake), his price will only go up with other teams looking for a top 4 Defensive Dman from the left side. Even this potential for bidding could influence negotiations in his favor, especially his wealth of NHL experience compared to the rest of the young ’uns on the blue line.

Although, any or all of your prophecies could come to pass, too. The uncertainty of what could happen compared against the good thing the Blues have now just makes me lean towards not going for those moves right now or in the near future.

No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.

by Poor College Student on Jan 23, 2012 3:16 PM CST up reply actions

If anybody else is interested in the Cap Game

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=27

No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.

by Poor College Student on Jan 23, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

I see where your coming from...

But I don’t think it’s the route Armstrong takes with Stewart. Last year set the standard he prefers to give short term contracts to keep his players hungry. And he’s gonna remember the first half before he commits crazy money long term.

As for Jackman, if we don’t get him re-upped during the All-Star Break, I’m going to be pretty surprised.

It is a lot to say this early, I admit. Just saying, we do have options.

Is willing to go to the mattresses with the lot of yous.

by Novacain on Jan 23, 2012 3:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions