Blues moves: Trade for a goal scorer? Not so fast....
The Blues supposed big need in the trade market is a scorer. The Blues aren't scoring enough goals, so the obvious solution is to go get a goal scorer. I think we might not be looking at the problem of the Blues scoring woes the right way. One member of the media brought this up, and I'd like to give credit where it's due, but I've honestly forgotten who it was that nested this idea in my brain initially. So, I'm just going to pass off his idea as my own and then expand on it to really claim it.
Look at the Blues forwards: Chris Stewart is a goal scorer. Patrik Berglund has topped 20 goals in a season twice before and has the potential to beat that. T.J. Oshie has the ability to score a bunch of goals. David Backes has scored 30 or more a couple times. David Perron scored 20 in his last full season and has the skills to score more. Alexander Steen scored 20 or more each of the last two seasons and was on pace for over 30 before his injury. Matt D'Agostini broke out for 21 last year and can pick some corners when he gets the right setup.
The Blues have goal scorers. What they need is a playmaker. A guy who "sees the ice" and looks to pass first would be deadly when teamed up with almost any two of the players listed above. Picture a guy like Brad Richards working the pivot with those shoot-firsters on the team. Or with the creepy Sedin who passes. Or with big, soft, passing center Joe Thornton. Just like with the woes on the power play - it's not that the Blues don't have guys who are afraid to blaze away on net (the Note are seventh in the league in shots per game and have shown a willingness to fire away during the man-add too). The problem looks more like it's about the quality of the shots that are being taken, not the quantity.
What good does it do the Blues to go get a goal scorer if there isn't a true top-quality playmaker to set him up any better than the current forwards? You could make the argument that when Andy McDonald returns to the lineup next week or next month that he could immediately improve the scoring of the players around him. But when will he return? And when he does, are you or, more importantly, is Doug Armstrong confident that Happy Meal can make it through the rest of the season or the wars of the playoffs without getting dinged again? What happens if he exits the lineup again and the Blues are back to being a bunch of shooters with no set-up guys?
The problem with trying to trade for a quality playmaker, of course, is that you have to find one first. The list of potentially available set-up artists is pretty thin. Do you trust Ales Hemsky to not be Petr Cajanek-soft? Ray Whitney has had a great year in Phoenix, but is that a mirage? Derek Roy from Buffalo has a good history, but has been terrible this year - would a change of scenery fix him or would the Blues get stuck with a very expensive under-performer?
To me, if a trade is to be made, that's the one to make. I'm not sure I'd want to be the guy who makes the call on which playmaker to go get, but Armstrong has proven that he can make the stealthy move that no one saw coming. Who will he go after? Let's look at a list.
These players are on teams that will be sellers at the deadline. They are also the types of players that sellers will be looking to unload, either because they have expiring contracts, heavy contracts or will bring a heavy return. Best guesses only; do your damage in the comments.
-Columbus: Rick Nash, Jeff Carter. Might as well start with the worst team with the biggest rumored names. These two also happen to be the least likely to come to St. Louis.
- Neither guy fits what the Blues need as they are shooters more than playmakers.
- They both have stupid, stupid contracts (which Armstrong seems to not favor): Nash is making $7.8 million a year through 2018, when he will be 33 years old, while Carter's cap hit is $5.27 million a year through 2022, when he will be 37 years old. Nash has a NTC, but is willing to waive it. Carter's doesn't kick in until next season.
- A trade within the division is hard to make, especially on Nash. Does Columbus want him showing up three times a year to drive a stake through their hearts?
(as an aside, I think Columbus loves stupid contracts. If not for his dumb contract (cap hit of $4.6 million for five years - he'll be 34) R.J. Umberger would be a target for a lot of teams (not the Blues - we have guys like him in spades and they all make way less for way fewer years) because he has playoff-type qualities. Instead, they're stuck with his fading skills and giant contract. Terrible.)
-Anaheim: Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Bobby Ryan. Anaheim is poo somehow, even with these guys. Seems impossible, but they are not good and they are crazily thinking about trading some of these guys. Should make you wary if you're a GM. Why are they trying to move good guys? Why can't they perform? Why do they want out of Southern California? Warning signs are everywhere. Perry and Ryan don't fit our needs - they're both great, but they're more of what the Blues already have.
- Getzlaf is a possibility, as he is a center with a decent contract and playmaker sensibilities. His early balding and recently fading scoring totals aside (just 58 points last year, only 39 so far this year), the 26-year-old could be an impact player in St. Louis, where he has a lot of mix-and-match possibilities with the shooters he could be paired with. He does not have a No Trade/No Movement clause.
- Both are very expensive and on the back end of their careers (Lecavalier's cap hit is $7.7 million through 2020, while St. Louis' hit is $5.6 through 2015. Both will be 40years old when the contracts expire.)
- Does management think the streaky Lightning can make the playoffs? Can they afford the PR trick of trading either guy?
- Would either player waive their No Movement Clauses and leave Tampa?
- The cost to get either player would likely be heavy.
- He makes $6 million a year, which is expensive on the Avs and affordable for the Blues.
- He does not have a NMC, so he could be traded without veto.
- Do the Avs want to move him and make room for more of the younger guys in their pipeline?
- Would a change of scenery and a return to St. Louis, where he spent a lot of his younger years help him?
- He fits the profile the Blues would be looking for: 26 years old, more of a playmaker than a scorer (118 career goals, 235 career assists), already knows many of the young, core Blues
- Paul Stastny
- Martin St. Louis
- Ryan Getzlaf
- Derek Roy
- Ray Whitney
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Would Stastny be that big of a trade?
How much of a playmaker is he compared to St. Louis? Marty’s top flight.
Let's Go Blues!
Support your local NAHL team. Seriously.
by Paperwork Ninja on Feb 6, 2012 10:49 AM CST via Android app reply actions
Stastny is all about the "playmaker" side of hockey.
The guy has great hockey sense and a a ridiculously underrated pass. He does his best work surrounded by talented, physical wingers (Chris Stewart). To be completely honest, trading Stastny to the Blues makes a ton on sense (or trading him to the Leafs, Stastny would get 100 points centering Lupul and Kessel). I’d just be scared to know what the Avs are asking for….
Go Avs.
Go Blues.
by Tony Trujillo on Feb 6, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
One thing about
Scott Gomez – he’s not afraid to stand right in front of the net. Something some of our forwards could learn from. Obviousy he’s way too expensive but I’d have a punt on him if he were cheaper.
LOL and Bob McKenzie reckons Anthony Stewart is going on waivers today…
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There we go.
We could confuse the hell out of millions. Not by having two Stewarts, but by picking up another 3rd liner who plays when he feels like it.
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LOL
we are rather overloaded with them.
I’m still waiting though for when the Chris version finally gets his head out of his arse.
Who-Natic - Eleventh Doctor blog.
"Hello...I'm the Doctor. Basically....run."
"There's one thing you never put in a trap, if you're smart, if you value your continued existence, if you have any plans about seeing tomorrow, there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap...ME."
The Eleventh Doctor - he's da man!
by drfrankentweed on Feb 6, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
he's a big fat d-man
who plays bad d. the blues are fine with d.
seriously, buff would be an (expensive) third-pairing d-man here. not worth it. at all.
he can play forward
and he has a ROCKET. He’d improve that PP real quick
"If you're not cheating, you're not trying."
when he played forward in chicago ...
he had 17 goals and 17 assists and was -7. he had six PPG and 5 PPA.
he was a third-liner, at best.
he carries a $5.2 million cap hit until 2015-16. that’s not friendly at all.
pass.
He had one overhyped but good postseason
and a hot start to the next season. Other than that, the only thing consistent about his is the impossibility to spell his name.
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I know it's time for hockey because I've started singing "Don't Stop Believing" with the words "...born and raised in FUCK DETRIOT!!!"
by J-Mill on Feb 6, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's another one who plays when he feels like it.
He was all great guns last season until he got his fat (hee hee) contract for five years, and then he just stopped playing pretty much totally.
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i like Ray Whitney
been saying this for a week or two now; guy could probably fix (some of) our power play issues.
In these bodies we will live, in these bodies we will die. Where you invest your love, you invest your life.
I do as well
It’s not that this year is a mirage – it’s that he’s 38 years old and trading for him for anything more than a late round pick or a low end prospect isn’t worth it, I don’t think.
Unless we go deep into the playoffs, which now that I think of it, he’d probably help with.
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Im still on the idea of Zach Parise.....Heres why.....
Army and Lou have a good working relationship…theyve made deals when Army was in Dallas so its not like the past where Lou would just try to screw us. I cant see Lou getting a good offer and turn it down just to lose Zach to UFA this summer. Lou knows he needs a goalie and he doesnt have squat in the pipeline. You could deal either Bishop or Allen in a package deal. We all know the line “wait till Steen and AMac get back” but here my issue with that, What if AMac comes back and takes another one and is finished?? I mean while I love the guy hes one more hit from the funny farm. Making a deal for a frontline center allows you to keep guys together long enough to get used to playing with each other. A deal say….Bish or Allen, any player not named Backes, Oshie, Petro or Shatty, and a pick or 2 would do NJ great. Keep in mind you could talk NJ into forfieting their top pick this year for the Kovy deal and then just trade for ours….they still get a pick and we get what we need. Yeah I know Lou says hes not dealing him but come on, you dont think the Army man couldnt change his mind?? And as for the guys listed….No WAY Tampa deals St Louis…..No WAY do I want Getzlaf…hes fucking dirty as shit, and Stasny……Im on the fence on that one….if you could get him for the right price then maybe…..but I wouldnt give ANYONE of the active roster for him…..
I still maintain Vladimir Konstantinov got what he deserved...If you can't handle that then kiss my ass......
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
Even if NJ would trade him
should they trade for him, when they don’t even know if they can afford to resign him.
by PersonalJustice on Feb 6, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
NJ
is in a win now mode, more then likely buyers but with cash problems wont trade for anyone or lose anyone right now
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
jesus, everyone with the goalie narrative…
It’s more likely the Devils try and get draft picks or high-end forward prospects than goaltending.
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Everyone has more goals than Scott Gomez
by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 6, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Oh come on.....
Marty isnt gonna play forever and you dont exactly have a prospect busting down the door…..
I still maintain Vladimir Konstantinov got what he deserved...If you can't handle that then kiss my ass......
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
This Scott Wedgewood fellow disagrees with you.
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Everyone has more goals than Scott Gomez
by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 6, 2012 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
''This Scott Wedgewood fellow...'''
…has numbers no better (and, in fact, worse) than Jake Allen’s numbers in junior.
I’d wait and see what Wedgewood can do at the AHL level, at least, before I handed him the keys to Brodeur’s kingdom.
Bishop is a known quantity at the AHL level, and has has several cups of coffee in the NHL. I know Bishop and a pick isn’t gonna get Zach Parise, but the talks would have to start someplace, right?
Personally, I’d rather get Paul Stastny, but I don’t want to trade anyone that’s worth a $#!+ to a potential playoff opponent… and I doubt Colorado’s GM is feeling too eager to let Doug Armstrong take him to the cleaners again.
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
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by Tomorrows Blues on Feb 6, 2012 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe Colorado's GM
is the guy going around posting that Colorado won that trade.
by PersonalJustice on Feb 6, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Sure, all five of those guys would be great . . .
but at what cost? You nailed it in mentioning how Tuomo Ruutu’s cost would be higher now than ever before for the right reason . . . this is a weak market. Being that all five of those guys are, in my mind, better than Ruutu . . . and you’re looking at a steep price for a semi-elite player you’re basically hoping plays well in the new digs. That worries me more than a bit.
All that said, we all know Army has the cojones to make a bold move required to bring in a Stastny, a Getzlaf, a Whitney and etc. And we’re pretty sure he has the assets at his disposal. I suppose anything is possible, but there certainly is a lot of risk assumed in getting any one of those guys at the price they will cost.
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blues dont play a passing game
chicken and the egg though perhaps, perhaps they dont play if cos they dont have anyone. but that is something for plato to figure out.
what i have seen is fat rebounds and the 5 sweet sweet passes the blues do make a game all end up not in the net.
ill still take a finisher for the power play and the clean up. a FIN ISH ER. i mena we have two powerforwards and bergs, and only backes is doing any chip ins.
the team has speed. it has size. it currently is playing a shot oriented game. the big bodies MUST get to teh dirty areas and finish or they must be replaced if the season is to extend into parade time
And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.
by Childhood Trauma on Feb 6, 2012 12:49 PM CST reply actions
boom
right there me and childhood never see eye to eye except right there
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
Same here.
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851
http://futurenotes.blogspot.com
by Tomorrows Blues on Feb 6, 2012 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'm so sick and tired of yelling
GET IN FRONT OF THE NET at my tv
Hockey players wear numbers because you can't always identify the body with dental records.
It is the sweet, simple things of life which are the real ones after all. Laura Ingalls Wilder
Roy
I don’t think Roy is an expensive under performer. I think he’s a fantastic player, a 2-way guy, and an above average playmaker as well. If Buffalo is really rumoured to be dealing some of those contracts, and for some reason he’s getting mentioned, I think we should try to snap him up.
www.twitter.com/ian_reynolds
Lecavalier or St. Louis
Both would be welcome additions to the P.P. and are genuine scoring threats . I’d give the nod to Lecavilier .
lecavlier's
contract is huge for someone like that
going through the handshake line at my game the other night, guy says youre still a prick Evan...me: yep sure am next time stop me from scoring
The only issue I see
Is the salaries involved. We need stable management before we really take on any contracts, but at the same time if we don’t get management we are fucked anyway so I guess yeah we might as well roll the dice. Even before we add players we are gonna be sitting at 56mil next year due to resignings. Roy and Stasney are my top 2 picks but im not sure the cost of aquiring them. If we can get Roy for just a second round pick + some change id be all for it.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Aren't you that guy who hates the blues?
STL had three scouts at the WPG/MTL game yesterday.
They’re looking, but I’m not sure at which team. WPG’s playmakers are guys that, unless their GM is as bad as Don Waddell was, they wouldn’t dump. Burmistrov’s got too much potential and Wheeler basically exists to get other people to try to pretend to score.
I could begin my pipe dream and fantasize that they were scouting Enstrom, but that’s probably not it. The ONLY forward on the Zombie Thrashers I would want on the Blues is Bryan Little. He’s got as much (and with the right linemates more) potential than Evander Kane, plus without the risk of being distracted by the East Side. Little’s mom raised him right (witness the number kerfluffle – Kane kept Hull’s regardless wheras Little automatically changed to 18 out of respect to Hawerchuck).
Thrashing the Blues - No, I'm not re-naming it.
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Reporter: There`s a "stamp out the Beatles movement" underway in Detroit. What are you going to do about it?
Paul McCartney: We`re going to start a campaign to stamp out Detroit.
I like the cut of Bryan Little's jib...
He can skate for my team.
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851
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by Tomorrows Blues on Feb 6, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Marty would be the coolest jersey ever
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 6, 2012 3:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
we would have to get
john blue out of retirement and have him netmind a game if we get marty.
just think of THOSE posibilities
And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.
by Childhood Trauma on Feb 6, 2012 5:41 PM CST up reply actions
My top picks would be
Stastny and Getzlaf
Hockey players wear numbers because you can't always identify the body with dental records.
It is the sweet, simple things of life which are the real ones after all. Laura Ingalls Wilder
I don't think big contracts are a big deterrent....
I’ve heard a lot of talk that the new CBA would likely include some sort of buyout amnesty, an out for getting away from bad contracts. I don’t know the details, but it seems like a good hedge against the gamble of trading for a player with big contract.
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That'd be a pretty big risk
to count on that with a trade this season before it becomes a reality. What happens if the players REALLY don’t like that idea, which I could see being the case?
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I know it's time for hockey because I've started singing "Don't Stop Believing" with the words "...born and raised in FUCK DETRIOT!!!"
I don't think the players will dislike that idea anywhere near as much as their greedy-assed agents will...
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851
http://futurenotes.blogspot.com
by Tomorrows Blues on Feb 6, 2012 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
The Blues can't have him until next season at the earliest, though.
And I do believe the point of this exercise is to figure out what the team would like to do ahead of the February 27th trade deadline.
Fight Club writer for the print edition of St. Louis Game Time . . . I need another beer.
The Throwdown Lowdown Report, only on The Bluenote Zone.
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TRADE
I’ve been barking up the same tree. ONE BIG PROBLEM. I’ve realized recently that even if we trade for a big time goal scorer or playmaker the problem is HITCHCOCK. Boy is that an oxymoron. Yeah, will they be able to perform at their best offensive ability or will they be stiffled by the defensive stile that Hitch has employed. Maybe we already have those players right here now. Especially, the goal scorer. E.G.-Backes,Stewart, Oshie..no, no, no…not Berglung ( my favorite trade bait).
Defense wins in Playoffs. Can we survive scoring 1 or 2 goals when that time comes?
on the road?
yea pretty much :)
And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.
by Childhood Trauma on Feb 7, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
TRADE THESE GUYS...
St. Louis gets:
- Statsny
- 3rd round pick
Colorado gets:
- Bishop
- 2nd round pick 2013
- 3rd round pick 2012
DONE. man that was simple :)
Colorado finally gets a goalie that can stop pucks… albeit at the potential of Roy if developed correctly in their system (they also should get a better goalie coach lol)
St. Louis gets that center home town guy that can pass the puck to Perron/Stewart, and we finally see Perron score 30+ goals!
bishop is worthless in a trade to the avs
and the avs are far from out of the 8th slot race, so if they trade it wont be a sell off now. can’t tell your fans you plan to finish out of it already
columbus? well maybe they take a flyer on bishop. MAYBE but seriously, even they wwho could assure he is a rfa and not unrestricted, certainly will not pay much for an ahl level netmnder with no contract and some serious chance of being a ufa.
And a harvest of righteousness is grown from the seed of peace planted by peacemakers.
by Childhood Trauma on Feb 7, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
No.
Sorry man, but that’s just a bad trade.
Go Avs.
Go Blues.
by Tony Trujillo on Feb 7, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure it worked on NHL '12
No beer and no TV make Homer...something something.
by Poor College Student on Feb 7, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
Swap in Bergie for the 3rd rounder
and you may have something.
http://playliketheplagers.blogspot.com/ Play Like The Plagers: Because we could all use a little Old Time Hockey!
I know it's time for hockey because I've started singing "Don't Stop Believing" with the words "...born and raised in FUCK DETRIOT!!!"
P.A. Parenteau
If the Blues wanted a playmaker, Parenteau is one without baggage. Feisty bugger, too. He’s a righty though, so I’m not sure his PP skills are needed (but good God the PP needs something).
Pending UFA, low cap hit … I’d be pissed if the Islanders traded him but PAP make de plays Would add setup skills to a middle line..
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